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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.19.2013 , 09:40 PM | #3601
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Most people understood my comments... Go look at the first sentence of note 3551 if you need further enlightenment..
By most people, you mean nobody it seems.

I see you still failed to actually re-read. Is it really that hard? I can help if you really need me too.

Oh let me guess, the response will be "Well <insert excuse here> happened so...<Excuse#2>"

If you can't hold a meaningful discussion, just admit it....oh wait you have.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
06.20.2013 , 12:01 AM | #3602
Quote: Originally Posted by Comfterbilly View Post
Ugh your post is a mess. I try to answer one thing at a time because you're flying so many false or weak assumptions, it's just better for you to only polish one bowling ball at a time. Nonetheless:



Again, Solos can and will join the casual group queue... *stop*
You can't have it both ways.

If X amount of pugs are going to leave because they get stomped, and that X amount is enough to have a cascading effect of Less PuG's > Longer Queue's > More Groups Quit > Population Decline, then giving those PuG's a different queue option has the exact same effect.

Even if PuG's can join the regular (Not, casual, regular) group and solo queue, the same factor (X) of them will leave for the new Solo-only queue option. There is no possible logical explanation that the amount of PuG's taking the new queue option will be less than the original amount of PuG's willing to quit.

Either X is enough PuG's leaving the group+solo queue (either quit or new option) to cause the game population to decline or it's not. If X is enough to effect population, then the solo-only queue doesn't fix the problem. If X isn't enough to effect population, your reason for a solo-queue is no longer justifiable..



Ps. And don't give me lame excuses. My post had to be posted 3 times to get a response, and you responded to other pieces and other people before that. You could have responded to both pieces at the same time, as I've seen you do before. You were dodging.
Player Responsibility: Players have the responsibility to strive for improvement before asking for changes.
Player Accountability: Insufficient credits, lack of gear, poor reputation, and inability to compete is the price of laziness, incompetence, and/or unwillingness.

HuaRya's Avatar


HuaRya
06.20.2013 , 12:02 AM | #3603
Is anyone else on a server where one faction re-rolled to toons on the other faction side so they could ride the premades to easy wins?

On jedi covenant all the good imp guilds that pvp'd are pretty much no more.

A typical non-ranked warzones consists of:

Pub Side: Half Premade from one of the five large pvp guilds, tag alongs usually solos and pair groups. Among those solos are healers trying to get into guilds, as they only take healers at this point.

Imp Side: A lovable collection of various players who may have recently turned 55 and are checking out what pvp is like.
Pazaak is long overdue
Pazaak in Cantinas, Pazaak Mini Quest, Pazaak Reputation Vendor
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Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
06.20.2013 , 12:08 AM | #3604
Quote: Originally Posted by HuaRya View Post
Is anyone else on a server where one faction re-rolled to toons on the other faction side so they could ride the premades to easy wins?

On jedi covenant all the good imp guilds that pvp'd are pretty much no more.

A typical non-ranked warzones consists of:

Pub Side: Half Premade from one of the five large pvp guilds, tag alongs usually solos and pair groups. Among those solos are healers trying to get into guilds, as they only take healers at this point.

Imp Side: A lovable collection of various players who may have recently turned 55 and are checking out what pvp is like.
Sure, and then you found out the other side sucks just as much as your side.

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
06.20.2013 , 12:34 AM | #3605
Quote: Originally Posted by HuaRya View Post
Is anyone else on a server where one faction re-rolled to toons on the other faction side so they could ride the premades to easy wins?

On jedi covenant all the good imp guilds that pvp'd are pretty much no more.

A typical non-ranked warzones consists of:

Pub Side: Half Premade from one of the five large pvp guilds, tag alongs usually solos and pair groups. Among those solos are healers trying to get into guilds, as they only take healers at this point.

Imp Side: A lovable collection of various players who may have recently turned 55 and are checking out what pvp is like.
The Imp guilds are still there.

They also have guilds on the Pub side, like a lot of Pub guilds have Imp sister guilds, and they switch between sides.

I asked a few of them why they switched over and they said that if one side looked heavy they would switch to their other toons to some what balance out the sides.

So if on one night there appears to be more Imps PvPing they will jump on the Pubs and vice versa.

MotorCityMan's Avatar


MotorCityMan
06.20.2013 , 12:50 AM | #3606
Wow recently recognized the premade farming pug problem and disabled the addons that were facilitating the large premades for battlegrounds. There still is the Blizzard premade queuing of up to 4, but they have instituted a matchmaking system that attempts to match premades vs premades as much as possible, filling in with solo players. I don't know with how much success.

Of course a premade of 4 has less impact anyways when there are teams of 10 -40 and more varied objectives.

I wouldn't mind seeing a similar matchmaking system in SWTOR.

HobbesTay's Avatar


HobbesTay
06.20.2013 , 02:28 AM | #3607
Last night on red Eclipse, I decided to pvp on my new lvl 55 marauder (who incidently has 2 pvp pieces, partisan main hand and the 410 power relic) and unfortunately for me 3 pvp guilds were queuing multiple 4 man groups in regular warzones

one of the matches I played in was against two separate 4 man premades and ended up as a total loss with none of my team getting a single kill. I managed to do 310k damage as was constantly try to kill one of their healers but died 9 times and was still second in damage on my team.

I can't see how this could have been fun, or a challenge for the premades and if I didn't have 4 other toons that I pvp on (1 of which is an elite warlord and 2 are rank 87) then i would not have had a very positive experience if this had been my first venture into warzones. most of the other matches I played in were similar although not quite so one sided.

There definately needs to be an "OPTION" to join the WZ queue and only face solo players. If it is an "OPTION" then as players get better gear and can compete they can chose to queue against premades or not if they come up against multiple premades on any given night.

match making will not solve the issue and would not be needed if a solo only "OPTION" were implemented.

I don't want to group up and form my own premade, i have been put off this idea after seeing the pvp guilds fielding 4 man teams in regular warzones.

To me its like entering an armoured car into a banger race, yes you are going to win but you have missed the point of the race and no-one is going to respect you for the win.

cymonguk's Avatar


cymonguk
06.20.2013 , 04:10 AM | #3608
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
As much as every bone in my body screams against punishing players that excel (especially to appease player who choose not to) I have to say this is an idea I could live with if it was tweaked.

I think basing it off valor isn't the best idea since high valor is not equal to high skill (even if it should be) nor does it guarantee the player is geared. Unless you reset the "diminishing" rewards every time another gear set came out, Players who have played the longest will be crippled in gearing for no justifiably "fair" reason.

That being said, based on some other measure of a players (or groups) ranking, I could see a reduce in comms (not credits, that's fine as it is). Not to the extent you mentioned, but as in all game mechanics test play is the key to balancing that. It's not my favorite idea, but it's live able.

However:

I do want to stress I'd prefer to see work on a matchmaking system.

I'd also -strongly- recommend that accessibility and rewards for ranked be buffed in order to entice groups to go the -extra mile- (Yes, a group willingly stepping out of regular to move into ranked is going the extra mile, they have every right to be in regular if they like) rather than punish/reduce something. Premades/Groups aren't doing anything wrong, and no one likes to be punished unjustly. Maybe a ranked only daily/weekly with a heavy credit addition, since credit flow is the main complaint I see about pvp rewards.
I am not convinced by options b or c. I would prefer to see option a.

For me better matchmaking so the team compositions are good, and open comms to all is the answer.

I would suggest that to make it more pug friendly that if there is a premade only on one side then the PUGS get some slight advantage (i.e. 20% extra xp/credits) or something to encourage them to stay,

However the matchmaking system is not going to happen on the current servers, and it seems they dont want to add in live voip? So then it becomes how do we resolve it.

All those pugstompers on here who are happy with the current situation need to stop burying their head in the sand. I see multiple posts from people asking why the Warzones take a while to pop, and when they do it is the same old premades, or a few same individuals. Yet they seem unable to put two and two together and realise that by pugstomping they are the cause of this issue.

Simply telling PUGs to L2P, grow up or go and get teammates isnt working. You can scream all you want that it is not your fault, but if you go around pugfarming all the time all you are doing is driving away new players. Like I have mentioned when I started solo queueing COD I would get beat a lot, but because I wasnt playing objectives gradually my kill rates and skills improved. With voice chat other players could shout at me to get to a specific point to help, or to guard a specific flank.

The way the pugfarmers are going you will end up with what is in effect non-ranked premade warzones.

sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
06.20.2013 , 04:16 AM | #3609
Quote: Originally Posted by HobbesTay View Post
...

match making will not solve the issue and would not be needed if a solo only "OPTION" were implemented.

I don't want to group up and form my own premade, i have been put off this idea after seeing the pvp guilds fielding 4 man teams in regular warzones.

....
I absolutely agree that these games shouldn't happen, but consider this:

It's perfectly fine to not want to group up, but if you did group up, the outcome would have been the same. The top pvp guilds play a ton, and have become really really good. Voice comms are an advantage, but they are absolutely not needed in such a game. In fact, if we run a guild premade, most of the times we are not on voice at all, and we still win most games against non-pvp guild premades, just because we usually have some 50k games combined among us 4, and have learned a thing or 2 along the way.

If you split queues then yes it will be better in the solo queue, but it will also be very hard on casual groups, which are the majority in this game. I believe that a big part of those groups would soon never form, and instead tehy would be "forced" to solo queue, but for those people who think being social is a significant part of an mmo this would be a pretty big letdown.

I honestly think matchmaking, however crude it is in the beginning, would be the only thing that maximizes the amount of "good" games vs stupid roflstomps. Yes those would still happen, but the goal should be to have as few of them as possible.

cymonguk's Avatar


cymonguk
06.20.2013 , 04:27 AM | #3610
Voice comms is a huge advantage, and if as a group you are not using them and stomping people, think how much worse it is when premades do have that advantage. You cannot compare typed chat to voice comms.