ETA on Advanced Class change?

I do understand that. But you cut corners sometimes you cause more problems than you solve.

And in this case the shortcut to save cash, if one could contend that, trivializes the choice to some extent.

...perhaps. AgaIn, just trying to wrap my head around why there are some folks that see ACs as specs but almost NOONE that sees a Jedi or Trooper as a spec.

There has to be a reason. I think it's a lack of investment. You need to feel invested, connected, for a choice to have meaning IMO.

They would have AC replacements.

You could have specials that work the same way as the base class ones do...in fact, to save money you can just roll them in all under the AC.

In a perfect world they would have new names and animations specific to your AC choice, but just moving them under the AC heading would work. Just get rid of the reference and ability list for your base class.

I think the reason is MUCH MORE BASIC that. Please note that this is my opinion only.

If you look at the Anti-AC change side, most of the people against AC changes recognize that the different AC's are different classes.

If you look at the Pro-AC changes side, most of the people in favor of allowing AC changes claim they are just specs.

I think the reason for this is that deep down, even those in favor of allowing AC changes know that the AC's are different classes, but by claiming AC's are not actual classes, they can claim this is not a "let me change my class" thread.

I dismiss it because its a different dynamic and a different game.

but fine, you want to compare it to guild wars 2, LETS compare it to guild wars 2.

in guild wars 2 - the story is tied to your race as well as several other origins selections you make at the character creation, along with your class.
at character creation - this is important
since you insist on comparing 2 different games - SWTOR now allows for a race change. why? because it has no effect on story flags. but this wouldn't work in guild wars 2, because too many flags would have to change. they would be more likely to implement a class change then a race change because of it.

moreover - none of the classes in guild wars share abilities. at all. each class has their own, distinct set of abilities, so even if you use similar weapons, they won't work the same way. this is distinct design of how GW2 classes work.
what makes star wars the old republic not like guild wars 2 is that

1 you do not select your advanced class at character creation
2. the game doesn't acknowledge your advanced class, aside from original description you get
3. you share abilities, you train at the same trainers.
4, you share tier gear sets (if there's anything that kinda shows definiteness of what's class and what's specialization - that would be tier gear, since you cannot actually wear say consular gear on a trooper, despite generally being able to wear light armor) - there is no commando tier, there's trooper tier

tldr. you insist on comparing apples to oranges under justification that they are both fruits and therefore, they must be the same, subject to the same judgement and reasoning. but they are not.

Take a Wizard and Necromancer in other games both are mages, both use same resource called mana, both wear light armor, both use int as main stat, both have different spec in either of thier advanced class of mage, each share basic skill and buffs that all mages have just with slight adjustments modified when they choose to be a Wizard or Necromancer. Yet both are classes

Take the 2 troopers, both use same armor, both use same resource, both use same main stat, both have different specs of their advanced class of trooper, each share basic skills and buffs that all troopers would have with slight adjustments modified to fit thier advanced class.

When you choose to be a commando you don't stop being a trooper just like a Wizard doesn't stop being a Mage. The only difference is instead of choosing wizard or necro at lvl 1 you choose at lvl 10 and your a mage from 1-10 which is nothing more then a level shift of when you select your class.

People like bringing up the different specs of WoW classes, do each of those different specs have 3 talent trees each so that each WoW class has 3 advanced classes each with their own set of 3 talent trees as you guys like to compare this to them.? I would like to know as i never was interested in WoW so i don't know if this never was or is the case.

Well, I will not argue against that contention because it certainly sounds logical...but it just doesn't feel right to me.

After all, I don't really feel invested in my AC and I am pretty strongly in the Anti-change column...mostly because I am worried about how the community will react and whether or not it will be abused.

Actually, that's not right. What worries me the most I guess is that a trivial choice that I want to have some meaning will have even less. I guess that's probably the biggest reason if I'm being completely honest.

And...now you have me thinking of something else along the lines of what you said...what if most of the Anti change folks feel the same way...the choice is really trivial enough and they don't want it to be even more meaningless?

Hmm.

The more I think about it the more convinced I get that this is a design issue.

If you don't mind me grabbing a snippet, this point here is what I'm getting at. A Commando uses Trooper gear, but a Jedi can not use Trooper gear. You are still a Trooper though you chose Commando.

Too many things in the game remind you of the class you were supposed to leave behind.

What you have essentially described is the problem. AC's are stated, insinuated and treated like separate classes but act like specs. The evidence if in what you just said. So essentially the AC is a base spec with three refined specs...at least how they are designed.

And that is just sad when you pile on the fact that you can't leave the base class behind. If AC is a class you should become that AC IMO.

WHAT????? AC as i described is exactly like majority of games and are classes. Wizard and Necro are not specs in most games they are classes. This means that a Commando or Vanguard are different classes. This is the typical archtype stucture most classes are made from in all games just some don't force you to level as the archtype before you pick your final class.

They could definitely have made it clearer and more concise at character creation.

For example, at character creation, instead of "choose a base class", they could have phrased it "choose a storyy line, you will be able choose your class at level 10. . If a player chose the trooper story line, the next screen could state that "this story line will allow a player to select either the vanguard or commando class at level 10." and then give descriptions of both classes. This would allow them to keep the current story line shared by two classes, but make it clear that your AC is your class.

The same info could be reflected on the game site, in an effort to reduce confusion.

Of course, this same information regarding AC being your class could be re-iterated at the time of AC selection in addition to all the notifications and warnings that AC choice is permanent.