ETA on Advanced Class change?

you are ignoring the fact that you can play an entire game without ever choosing your advanced class... sooo are you playing classless then?

just because they made a statement, doesn't make it unequivocal, unchangeable truth.

also - the difference between WoW and TOR IS the story. so you are comparing apples and oranges here. and like I said, WoW did offer a jump to max level for any character on your account and i actually took it for my new druid (I did level a druid before, but didn't want to spend money transferring her).

class in TOR is TIED to the story. the main reason you cannot change CLASS (or gender or faction) in TOR because of all the multiple flags you accumulated along the way. AC? has no such restrictions. AC? is optional already. and THAT's a fact.

so what you are claiming is our class is optional. so if its optional, exactly why can't we change it? exactly?

you cannot play without choosing it... you simply will hit a wall where you can no longer "win" any class related quests because you will lack the tools to do so.

your AC is your class. You pick the story you want to play t level 1 then at level 10 you pick which of the 2 classes that go with that story you want to play. Every class uses different weapons and or stats. That is one of the defining things about each class. A Vanguard cannot use an assault cannon any more then a jugg can dual wield.

I know this is far too complex for the majority of the simple minded forum QQers but that is the reality. If you picked "powertech" or "mercenary" at level 1 this wold never have been brought up. its the entitled little brats of teh world who want everything without earning anything that think this is a good idea.

that's where you are wrong. you CAN finish your class story without choosing AC. you may have to overlevel it and overgear it, or be above average at skill and reflexes, but you CAN do it. also - you have a primary stat per class. AC doesn't change that primary stat. in fact.... vanguard dps uses identical stats to commando dps. completely 100% identical. for example. the only difference is primary weapon shell... mods, barrel, crystal are the same, only SHELL that's different. the real difference in stats starts with role, not advanced class.

and by resorting to personal insults you are showing that you have no real constructive argument to make. great job!

no you really can't complete it... you will not have things like interrupts will make killing classes that heal impossible regardless of level. Also the gear sets are different and teh stats beyond the "primary" are needed in different amount.

By your simple minded logic Warriors DKs and Ret paladins of wow are all the same class because they use the exact same stats. See you trying to put a square peg in a round hole and say its a round peg. You are flat wrong. If you play a commando then play a vanguard you will see they are 100% different classes. Just because a mage and warlock use the same gear and same stats does not make them the same class.

I am DEAD serious. I'm not even going to debate why. I pay my subscription. I pay for my characters. Nobody should tell me how to play or what button to hit and when or what spec to play or OMG FOTM or PvE vs PVP or WHATEVER.

I don't think it's cool to try and dictate how other people play the game. If I'm in a group and someone keeps choosing need then I won't play with them anymore. That should be enough. It's not my place to tell them what to do. If I'm in a group filled with Juggernauts because they are FOTM then I will find another group. It's not my place to tell people what spec to play. Period.

Having an opinion is one thing, trying to dictate or bully people into playing the way you think is just wrong. See all of the examples I listed and linked in my post above?

Please provide us with proof. As another poster has already provided evidence that they haven't ever said this. They consider ACs to be distinctly different -- but they never said class.

Although, in the end, it doesn't matter what you think, or what I think. If BW, as stated, is discussing implementing this -- they will make the choice and either put it in, or leave it out.

I'd just love a dev response that is black and white. *Yes* we have it on our list of to-implement. No, we don't plan on it. Either would be nice.

So far we've gotten -- "It will likely happen eventually" -- which is purposely vague.

Is it? Show me youtubes of level 50+ people finishing group content with no AC selected. If you find one, I'll concede it is actually optional.

That, however, does not change the fact that AC is your class. And changing classes doesn't happen in MMOs. It's bad for business, it's bad for the community health and it's bad for the game as a whole.

I have personally played two games, where you start as one or two classes. Novice in RO (http://irowiki.org/wiki/Novice), and Mystic/Warrior class in Lineage 2. All the classes branch out from the one class you are at the beginning and there are tons of classes. Yet, people didn't feel entitled to a class change, just because they spent the first 50 levels as the same class the other class had as prerequisite.

Why in the world would you even let a sentinel, for example, swap to a guardian? Even if he's in full operations gear, he's worse off than a fresh level 55 guardian, at least that dude is in blue heavy armour. All you have is a bunch of purple mediums, which probably give less armour than heavy blues. Arguably, this is less problematic with custom gear, but then who is going to pay tons of credits for swapping all his mods in and out of new gear every week when they decide they should swap AC again? Yeah, nobody.

Then, there's the fact that all AC combinations have very little in common. Scoundrel plays nothing like gunslinger, they're completely different. Shadow/Sage? Do these two have _anything_ in common? Commando/Vanguard might be close, I haven't played vanguard/powertech yet. And while sentinel and juggernaut seem similar at first glance, the difference is still gigantic. Do you really want people doing level 50+ flashpoints/heroics with you that have never played their class before? I sure don't.

And, finally, as has been stated here _many_ times in the past, Bioware themselves said AC is basically a class. Class changes should not happen. They have mentioned the possibility of AC change. Well, they have also mentioned the possibility of UI mods, never going f2p and other junk that will never come true.

Want a new class? Roll a new char, spend CC/creds for xp boosts to get it to cap faster. There are things that can be changed (I still think removing respec cost for subs was a mistake though) and there are things that can't. If you play casually, AC doesn't matter, the game is easy like that. If you don't play casually do some research before clicking that button (and then confirming the warning about OMG YOU CAN ONLY DO THIS ONCE!). At least read the in-game description provided before clicking. Or, if you're too lazy to read, reroll. Like they say, haste makes waste.

Do you have proof that this is bad for business and/or bad for community health and/or bad for the game?

I have yet to see any proof whatsoever. And the argument "Oh, other games don't do that" isn't an argument.

yet you show your ignorance when you even signed the contract saying specifically they are not your characters your simply "rent" them. EA has 100% control over them. They can play them if they want tehy can delete all their gear if tehy want, and you agreed to let them do it.

you keep saying that you can't, and yet people have.

methinks you are projecting.

and I have played both commando and a vanguard. well... mercenary and vanguard, but other then animations, commando and merc are basically mirrors. sure it plays very differently. but so does affliction warlock, vs demonology warlock, versus destruction warlock (and yes, i played my warlock as all 3) and so does holy pally vs retribution pally vs protection pally (again, played all 3)

very VERY different. and yet warlock is STILL a warlock. troopers and bounty hunters also use identical stats, and yet you don't see me claiming that they are the same class. they ARE however mirror classes.

when you are logging in to your character in TOR. what does the login screen say while leveling? it doesn't say vanguard chapter 1, or commando chapter 1. it says TROOPER chapter 1. when you have "class quest" in your journal - it's the same for vanguard OR commando. the same class vendor sells gears for both AC's. your codex specifies entries about companions, stories, etc - as trooper. in your skill window you have 2 sections for your abilities. your advanced class? and you CLASS. your interrupts and your stuns? are class wide, not limited to advanced class. your crowd control can vary, but that also varies from class to class, for instance agents regardless of AC can slice droids.

last but not least its called "advanced" class. wording is pretty deliberate.

and yes, if we picked out advanced class at character creation this would probably be different. but we don't. the way the game is currently set up? advanced class is specialization, NOT a distinct class.

@ Truga. i have 14 characters. i have it covered. whether ac change happens or not, I won't be using it. its not about me.

moreover. I've been playing the secret world recently. and interesting thing is? it doesn't even have a rigid class at all. I can specialize in things, but the only real difference between my characters? is a chosen faction.

last but not least - rift and its Souls. now there's a build your own class, change the class any way you want mechanic for you.

other games are other games. this is TOR. just because some other game doesn't do something and yet other game does and yet another game doesn't even have restrictions at all... doesn't mean TOR MUST be just like that other game. so lets talk in TOR terms specifically. you know what? if I'm going to reply to this thread again, I'm going to ignore any further comparisons to other games, because THOSE are truly irrelevant.