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Why the disappointed don't leave...

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Why the disappointed don't leave...
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Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
06.19.2013 , 11:08 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
Is that why nobody has released an MMO in 10 years that has succeeded without having to give the game away for free? Many of them have failed outright.

When there hasn't been a single, concrete success in a decade, the genre is stagnant.
Looks like my counterpoint has already been covered. That and the fact that you call all free to play conversions failures basically proves you haven't kept up with market trends and the major paradigm shift in the mmo genre. Welcome to 2013.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

AlienEyeTX's Avatar


AlienEyeTX
06.19.2013 , 11:08 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
Still waiting for an answer as to why, if MMO's are so successful, they must give them away for nothing to beat numbers EQ achieved 15 years ago... when far, far less people had the capacity (in PC power and net connectivity) to even play MMO's.

"The market changed" is PR nonsense. The games changed to become more mainstream and it didn't work so "give it away for free" became the safety valve to keep the genre afloat.
It's likely quite a few factors, all in motion. I'll give this a quick stab, though.

Casual gamers are used to plunking down $50-60 for a game and playing for a few weeks or a couple of months until they "beat" the game. Occasionally, they will go back and play the game again... no additional charge. Some casuals become interested in MMOs now that better licenses or better gameplay is available. They are reluctant to buy a game at full price, plus continue paying for it... A) Because they didn't have to do that before, and B) because they fear commitment to something that they might not like.

So, you give them the game. They can try it and commit the money if they want to stay long-term. Or, they can improve their game experience a little bit at a time with small, easily digestible transactions. They don't feel ripped-off and they still don't feel tied-down because their investment is relatively small. If they keep playing, they will continue to make small transactions when something comes up that is important to them, or they will sub if they really get into it.
You like free stuff, right? Click on this referral link to get yours. I'll get a little something, too. Welcome home. #freethelekku

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
06.19.2013 , 11:17 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
So in summary...

I am right. There has been no clear-cut successful MMO released in 10 years but I'm also wrong because...

If you take out all the ones that failed and were shut down because... they don't count for some reason?
And you take out EQ and WoW, because... they were just lucky?

So yes, the MMO market is thriving as long as you forget about everything that didn't thrive, and your definition of "thriving" excludes comparisons to the only two MMO to ever actually thrive.

Got it.
More products means less person on each product even though MORE people are playing MMOs. I swear sometimes CK you just don't want to listen. You have your mind made up and thats it.

cable television has the same problem. Awesome new TV shows but well never, ever see the numbers we had in the 80s or even 90s on a single show because the product market is so wide. So many choices.

You either accept this reality or choose to be ignorant.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.19.2013 , 11:17 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
Still waiting for an answer as to why, if MMO's are so successful, they must give them away for nothing to beat numbers EQ achieved 15 years ago... when far, far less people had the capacity (in PC power and net connectivity) to even play MMO's.

"The market changed" is PR nonsense. The games changed to become more mainstream and it didn't work so "give it away for free" became the safety valve to keep the genre afloat.
Changing economies means changing needs of the consumer base. A flexible format allows for this day and age's consumers to have access to what MMOs offer.

Or have you had your head up your butt for say the last 5-6 years and don't realize the world's in a recession/depression and countries are nearing bankruptcy left and right? Do you fail to comprehend what a much more competitive job market means for people? People are having to do more while making less in general. Its not how it was in the 80's and 90's. This means a pure sub model in this economic climate is entirely stupid.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
06.19.2013 , 11:28 AM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
Still waiting for an answer as to why, if MMO's are so successful, they must give them away for nothing
LOL at the desperation in your virtual voice.

1) they don't give them away. They implement a freemium model that is designed to successfully extract revenue from the player base? Why? BECAUSE THE MARKET CHANGED.... players learned from their silly mobile phones and from one smaller but innovative MMO company that you could play games on a flexible economic model and they demanded the same in other segments of the market.

2) LOTRO took an innovative risk and launched the modern era of the Freemium MMO model. They did it because they launched during WoWs peak in the market and were being lost in the noise. So... they SHIFTED THE MARKET and were very successful at it. They innovated in response to the market and profited and thrived. They set the standard in many regards for how to do a Freemium MMO successfully for both customers and the company.

3) THE MARKET HAS CHANGED. No amount of squealing and breath holding on your part can change this. No amount of protesting or deflecting with snarky comments can change this. You need to tattoo that in reverse on your forehead so you can read it every time you look in the mirror IMO . OR, just quit MMOs....because apparently in your little world view... they quit you. Might as well complete the divorce papers and file them IMO.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

MrJurgens's Avatar


MrJurgens
06.19.2013 , 11:52 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
LOL at the desperation in your virtual voice.

1) they don't give them away. They implement a freemium model that is designed to successfully extract revenue from the player base? Why? BECAUSE THE MARKET CHANGED.... players learned from their silly mobile phones and from one smaller but innovative MMO company that you could play games on a flexible economic model and they demanded the same in other segments of the market.

2) LOTRO took an innovative risk and launched the modern era of the Freemium MMO model. They did it because they launched during WoWs peak in the market and were being lost in the noise. So... they SHIFTED THE MARKET and were very successful at it. They innovated in response to the market and profited and thrived. They set the standard in many regards for how to do a Freemium MMO successfully for both customers and the company.

3) THE MARKET HAS CHANGED. No amount of squealing and breath holding on your part can change this. No amount of protesting or deflecting with snarky comments can change this. You need to tattoo that in reverse on your forehead so you can read it every time you look in the mirror IMO . OR, just quit MMOs....because apparently in your little world view... they quit you. Might as well complete the divorce papers and file them IMO.
You sure do love using "freemium". Yup, keep sugarcoating it, honey. That'll surely make me feel a whole lot better about this game and the market in general.

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
06.19.2013 , 12:14 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Changing economies means changing needs of the consumer base. A flexible format allows for this day and age's consumers to have access to what MMOs offer.

Or have you had your head up your butt for say the last 5-6 years and don't realize the world's in a recession/depression and countries are nearing bankruptcy left and right? Do you fail to comprehend what a much more competitive job market means for people? People are having to do more while making less in general. Its not how it was in the 80's and 90's. This means a pure sub model in this economic climate is entirely stupid.
Nope, did a lot of work with corporate clients identifying products that excel in down cycles. MMO gaming was not an area that they addressed, but I would think that it is a good candidate.

People crave and need entertainment and release and MMOs offer a great deal for very little money to people who cannot afford alternate routes.

Compare the MMO sub fee,to a night at the movies, a date, a ball game, a trip to a bar with friends, and on and on and it is an entertainment bargain. Gads, a trip to McDonalds for two will cost almost as much as a months sub.

Sub fees are not stupid, but to charge one you have to offer a product that people are willing to buy. That is the catch.

SteelPiranha's Avatar


SteelPiranha
06.19.2013 , 12:27 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by MrJurgens View Post
You sure do love using "freemium". Yup, keep sugarcoating it, honey. That'll surely make me feel a whole lot better about this game and the market in general.

Definition of 'Freemium'
A combination of the words "free" and "premium" used to describe a business model that offers both free and premium services. The freemium business model works by offering simple and basic services for free for the user to try and more advanced or additional features at a premium. This is a common practice with many software companies, who offer basic software free to try but with limited capabilities.

The word is being used correctly.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.19.2013 , 12:31 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by asbalana View Post
Nope, did a lot of work with corporate clients identifying products that excel in down cycles. MMO gaming was not an area that they addressed, but I would think that it is a good candidate.

People crave and need entertainment and release and MMOs offer a great deal for very little money to people who cannot afford alternate routes.

Compare the MMO sub fee,to a night at the movies, a date, a ball game, a trip to a bar with friends, and on and on and it is an entertainment bargain. Gads, a trip to McDonalds for two will cost almost as much as a months sub.

Sub fees are not stupid, but to charge one you have to offer a product that people are willing to buy. That is the catch.
You realize you just said you did work with corporate clients as an expertise qualifier, and then admitted they didn't work in MMO gaming.

So why include that at all? It was a pointless red herring.

Jandi's Avatar


Jandi
06.19.2013 , 12:34 PM | #90
The biggest issue with any game with a cash shop, regardless of business model, is that if the numbers start to drop and they need cash, the investors may demand the devs to start selling power on the cash shop. At that point the game is irreversibly ruined for the sake of short term profit, which is all those investing in games care about as shown time and time again.

The ethics, principles or previous statements of developers mean nothing when the person(s) with the power and money in the company tells the devs to sell power.
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