ETA on Advanced Class change?

These debates are all the same. A few souper lee7 d0odz or Hard Core or <insert current meme here> think they should dictate how everyone else plays the game. If it's not this then it's something else. Here are some of my favorites:

SWTOR

SPEEDER TRAINING
In beta and for a good portion of the live game you couldn't get your speeder until level 25. Super lame. Most people who bought the CE felt lied to because they prominently advertised the CE speeder. All of the little forum trolls thought it was fun to lobby against reducing this gate. Probably because their mommies wouldn't buy them the CE.

End Result: You can now purchase speeder piloting 3 as a character perk with a level 1 character.

SPRINT
In beta and for a good portion of the live game you didn't have sprint until level 14-16 (depending on the build). You had to walk slowly (very slowly) until then. Imagine walking all the way through DK LOL. Oh that was SO fun. Another endless forum forum battle ensued.

Please move sprint to level 10
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=332497

No warzone until you can sprint
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=284233

End Result: You get sprint at level 1 as a subscriber

Respec Fees
In beta and for a good portion of the live game respec fees would become astronomically and exponentially expensive. Just like other debates, the little forum trolls were SOOOOOOOO interested in what everyone else's spec was. The QQing over the idea of someone changing their spec without some kind of massive penalty was legendary.

My respec costs 36550 credits now
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=53952

Outrageous Respec Cost
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=100637

End Result: You can respec for free, at will if you are a subscriber.

Legacy Unlock
When the Legacy system was first introduced you had to complete Chapter 1 of your class story before choosing a legacy name. There was an other forum battle at the thought of potentially lowering it. All of the super leet trolls felt it was cool to keep it gated. Surprised yet?

End Result: You can now unlock your legacy at like level 10.

SWG

ENCUMBRANCE
SWG launched with this little gem of a concept. For every piece of armor you equipped you would become more "encumbered". If you put on a full set you would literally fall over from exhaustion. Fun right? Massive forum wars ensued. All of the trolls felt that falling over dead from wearing armor was an awesome idea.

End Result: Encumbrance was removed. Period.

DECAY
Every single time you used an item it would "decay". Eventually it would break and become usable. The only way to fix it was to buy a kit from a crafter. The kits worked like 50% of the time LOL. People hated this. Again, MASSIVE forum wars.

End Result: Decay was removed. Period.

10 MINUTE SHUTTLE TIMES
Originally to get from point A to point B (aside from **walking**) you had to wait 10 minutes for a shuttle. Doesn't that sound fun? You have 2 hours to play a game and you spend like 40 minutes or more standing in one spot waiting for a shuttle. Imagine if you had to wait 10 minutes for every taxi in SWTOR and there were no mounts of any kind yet. Fun right? No? Well all of the forum tough guys thought it was so fashionable.

End Result: Shuttle times were reduced to ONE MINUTE.

CORPSE RUNS
In SWG and in some other MMOs you would lose all of your belongings when you died. You had to actually go find and loot your own corpse to get your stuff back. In most cases I would die like 10x along the way. One time I died in the middle of the Judland Wastes and all but gave up on my stuff. On the forums there were endless debates. All of the Internet Tough Guys calling people names. Back then they were "l337". Today everyone else is just "Entitled" or whatever else is fashionable. The insults tend to rotate but the sentiment is the same. Guess what happened?

End Result: Corpse Runs were completely removed.

PERMA-DEATH
Originally when you unlocked your Jedi you were allowed to die 3 times. After that your character was permanently dead. As in gone. Kaput. Murdelized! This was one of the most heated debates ever. We had people frothing at the mouth over "cannon" and why Jedi shouldn't be in the game in the first place. We had people name-calling. People were banned from the forums, etc. All of the Internet Tough Guys trying to bully people on the forums and trying to bully SOE. Threatening to quit. Acting like their tiny little debate had anything to do with anything.

End Result: Perma-Death was completely removed.

Etc. Etc. Etc.
Internet Tough Guys are all the same. They don't care about the good of the game. They're not here to have fun. Heck, most of them don't even play the damned game. They spend all day here on the forums trying to sound tough or cool and spew whatever the latest dog crap is that all of the other trolls find fashionable.

SO HERE WE ARE AGAIN: ANOTHER ENDLESS DEBATE. Another thread with hundreds of replies from the same tough guys trying to bully everyone else. Another topic that has the S0up3r L337 D0oDs frothing at the mouth because they can't dictate how everyone else plays the game.

GET OVER YOURSELF. I PAY FOR MY CHARACTERS. I will hit "NEED" if I feel like it. I will login whenever I please. I will play whatever FLAVOR OF THE MONTH class I with to play. I will PvP or NOT PvP whenever I feel like it. I will play on whatever server I want. I will make my character look like a total clown if I feel like it. You are not as tough as you think... and this is really important... nobody... and I mean NOBODY cares what you have to say.

Raph Koster (Lead Designer for Ultima Online and Creative Director for SWG) wrote an excellent piece on this back in 2006:

Players who post, posters who play

Basically, some people are only here to bad mouth the game and troll the people who actually do. But for some unknown reason publishers keep listening to them. I wonder what will happen with AC Switching?

Nope, you can play however you want. Choices should have consequences though, this is what RPGs are all about. I feel no satisfaction in achieving something when it happens with a single click.

And besides, if one can swap AC, why can't we swap classes then? And if we can swap classes, why can't we swap factions? And while we're at it, why do we even have to play this game? There's already a thread, suggesting buying max level for 10k CC...

Because apparently I have an agenda of dictating other players how they can play.

Ed:You know what, you're right here. I don't really care about the good of the game. I care about what's fun for me, and what's not fun for me is people changing classes left and right and then coming into my flashpoints without the proper gear and with no knowledge of their class whatsoever. In short,my position is that I won't be able to have fun when some idjit who has no idea what he's doing joins my group. They're dime a dozen already, we don't need even more.

What category do you fit in?

You know, for trying to take away peoples choice to buy random packs off of the CM? Rather hypocritical, IMO.

Seriously Bioware do not listen to this kid. He sounds like he is 10 and has autism. Just reroll a new toon, with all the xp boosts you can get it's really not that much of a grind. STOP ASKING the devs to implement STUPID tech. They need to spend their time and resources on the future of the game, not catering to OPs sense of self entitlement.

I'm pissed I even had to write this. **** OP

actually i would be ok with this option if the passive xp works by giving the switcher triple or quadruple xp , so he or she can get back to his or her original level quickly, otherwise i dont know how it will be possible for a reverted lvl 10
player to get back to lvl 30s,40s or 50s in a reasonable pace tbh ;especially since most likely the story didnt reset back their the capitol plantes

lol and you are better by belittling those who doesnt agree with you?


see this is my problem with both sides here

the pro : they want AC, yet dont want any serious repercussion for switching.now if this game was like phantasy star online 2, where you HAVE to level a base AC to get the more powerful AC, then i wouldn't mind free crazy respec all the time you want, but this game doesnt offer that.

there need to be a limit of switching your AC or a serious consequence to doing so.
my thoughts is that the higher your level is, the harsher the AC switching punishment should be.
now if you just want AC change just to switch to the FOTM each month, then leave.



the con: lol you know, you guys are far too self center within your OPINION. i get why you dont want AC changing, but going to the immature, stupid, silly name calling , egotistic manner which most of your guys are doing, is downright shameful. most of you have good points, but your stubbornness to see outside your own agenda is really is sad.

look if you dont want it, make your opinion known and leave this thread. you dont have use the FOTM defender words like lazy (because not everyone is lazy and which btw is also silly as this game is in fact.....GAME. apply real work effort those something that have no true monetary value is absurd),entitled (which again, not everyone is being"entitled".....btw on that point too, you guys arent even use entitled or entitlement correct either. i suggest you LOOK IT UP and apply it to the proper situation. i mean english isnt even my first language, but even i know you are using it wrong) or whatever.


you dont have to make yourselves look like idiot to prove the other side wrong

Yes, this is the most common response. "It's just a game, it's not work."

Well, gaming is my hobby. I love playing games that require actual effort. I have fun playing games that require what you call "work" (for me, work is often just as fun as playing games, so I'm not seeing the issue here at all). And if gaming is reduced to "hit a button and you win" then it'll be a very sad day for me.

I say no to such games. If you want something, work for it. If you're not having fun while doing it, go play something else. I came to this game because I like games like this. I don't want junk like dual spec and AC change and whatnot. Now people want to change it. Of course I'll come here and complain about it. They have other games that _already_ have those features, why can't they go play those and leave my game and my fun alone?

The other MMO I play currently is GW2. I see no people there asking to be able to change from mesmer to elementalist because "they're both casters anyway" and "don't want to level up another caster, but want to play it". Why is it that SWTOR is the only game where people ask for this? Can someone expain?

And can BW really afford to alienate the people still playing this game? Obviously, the ones that are left are here because they love the game. They aren't in those other games with those features, because in their opinion this one is better. Think about that for a while.

You were serious about that? I honestly thought you were just poking fun at the people in that thread.
You are absolutely correct.

But there are two sides to an MMO (for it to really be an MMO): Cooperation and/or Competition.

Both involve interacting with others. This isn't a solo game (as much as it may seem like it to some). You can play this game 100% selfishly, in a way that benefits yourself to the detriment of others, or you can play it in a way that is mutually beneficial.

It is your prerogative to play the game any way you wish. But as someone who claims to have contributed to the DEVELOPMENT of an MMO, how can you possibly think promoting selfish play (over cooperative play) is better for the game as a whole?

strawman arguments ftw!
ac is a specialization of a class. currently - this choice for specialization is permanent. however - whether you are a vanguard or a commando? you are STILL a trooper. you share the same story, the same companions. you have exactly the same choices along the way. there is more difference to the story based on your chosen race then there is based on your chosen AC... and we can now change race.
you can hit max level without choosing your AC at all and it will not affect your story any, it will just make it more challenging to quest.

the fact that you don't even really have to chose AC at all? tells me that its not the same as choosing a class. you HAVE to chose a class to play. AC however? is not mandatory. so its not comparable to switching from trooper to say sith warrior. not even remotely.

there are NO flags in a game other than individual play style that would significantly affect the game if AC switch is allowed, unlike gender swap for example.

also and this is slightly murky but not contradictory to my statements above.

it is entirely possible to get to max level without finishing your personal story. you NEED to finish starter planet ( so that you could get off it - I could be wrong, but I'm not sure you can even use your lvl 10 travel to fleet ability unless you finished your personal story on a starter planet), and its advisable to at least finish enough of your story to get a ship, but once that's done? you don't have to do anything else. you are more restricted in how you can level, but the fact is - you CAN level. so. buying max level character or near max level (provided you level them far enough to get their ship, for example) is not such an awful "NO, NEVER" proposition. (and incidentally - WoW did it as a promotion for returning players - get one character to lvl 80 for resubscribing and guess what? world didn't end) you'd still need to quest through your story if you wanted more companions etc.

but there is no inherent virtue in taking the long way around. you don't have to personally take the short way - you are free to continue to enjoy the game YOU see fit. existence of an option =/= removing your choice not to take it and continuing to play as you prefer.

the truth is. different people may prefer different aspects of the game. they may enjoy certain parts of it, but not others. forcing them to play through the parts they do not enjoy doesn't make the game better or more fun.

imagine this. I don't know your personal preference, but lets pretend you hate pvp. now imagine if you are FORCED to pvp in order to progress your story and your character. even if you really like the story aspect and the end game pve aspect, just the fact that you must pvp to get to it? will turn you off the game for good and that's a shame, because you could have been having so much fun with the parts you love if only they weren't gated so much.

there is this assumption that if "easy" option is presented then everyone will take it and things will be bad. but the reality is - people who enjoy leveling and rolling alts will keep leveling and rolling alts, because that's what they like. you'll just have more people enjoying the game in more flexible ways.

So far nothing you have said there is even relevant.. Bioware has stated that it considers the AC to be our class.. So there is nothing to argue on that front.. There is a huge difference between a Marine Corp Pilot and a Marine Corp Scout Sniper.. Both are marines, yet both are very different classes and have very different roles.. Yes I used real life instead of another game..

Story is irrelevant.. All the classes in WOW do the same story.. The only difference is the baby area and that is race dependent.. Beyond that, all classes can do the same quests.. When you get to Outland, you no longer have a choice.. You will do all the same quests.. So seriously.. How about we stick to reality here..

Your AC is your class..