ETA on Advanced Class change?

That's a shame IMO, because I think at times we have moved toward some interesting compromises that seemed rather reasonable and could work for a good portion of the playerbase overall.

I certainly do not hold the final word, and my opinion means next to nothing at the end of the day. I wish other players could realize that likely fact as well.

You should be able to change your level at will? You should be able to pick whatever skills you want? You should be able to set the number of credits and the number of implants you have whenever you want?

Oddly enough: Games are games because there are restrictions. Without restrictions, games are... well, the word pointless doesn't seem to cover it. Without barriers and restrictions, there simply isn't even a game. You just have a thing, a ball of putty that becomes whatever you want, yet fails to ever have any meaning or value.

Sorry that you misunderstood: Your advanced class is your *class*. Even if they add the ability to change your advanced class, you should expect that it would be intrusive. You are, effectively, creating an entirely different character, just as if you had requested to change your Monk into an Archer.

I don''t really see it as this. Unless you can be a Commando as an AC choice inside the Warrior tree, that really isn't a valid point IMO.

They can be looked at as separate classes within the base class due to the distinction between each within the class, but they certainly have little in common with other classes that have their own AC's.

Asking to be a Commando or a Vanguard, or switch is not as much of a stretch because the game is already designed to accept either choice within the class. But that naturally depends on the level the choice is made.

We are making the choice at level 10. They could have chosen level 20, or 30, etc. The AC to me seems to be a mechanism to allow more roles within a class and bring focus to those roles, as well as a gate to use specs.

This was the wrong way to go about it IMO, but that's another discussion.

I agree with this 100%. I believe that a game has both freedoms and barriers. If it is all barriers, or all freedoms, it ceases to be a game.

While the correct ratio of freedoms vs barriers is a personal opinion, there has to be some of each to have a game at all.

You see Lord, that is the problem with you pro class swapping folks.. You are making your argument based on how you see it.. Not how it is and not how Bioware has stated it is.. Do you see the problem there??

Your arguments are moot because in most MMO's the class choice is at level 0 or character creation.. The fact that Bioware made it at level 10 is largely irrelevant to the discussion.. People still chose their AC knowing the consequences of that choice.. Their choice is permanent and it will not change.. The game says this repeatedly in Voice over and in text..

You class is not something that should be changed like a pair of underwear.. It defeats the point of having a class if it is allowed to be changed on a whim.. What you are in fact arguing for is no classes.. We are all the same class and we can all perform all roles.. That essentially is the final solution..

Again, back to WOW.. Dual spec'ing... WOW allowed this just after the launch of WOTLK.. With the release of MOP, there are no talent trees.. Hence no specs as we know them.. I doubt there is anyone here looking forward to some drastic changes to fix a mistake like allowing AC swapping.. I pray that we don't lose our talent trees as it is because Bioware has caved on the issue dual spec'ing so far..

Again, there is no reason to allow class swapping.. I have said this before, and nobody has yet to come up with one.. Not even you.. Your views are not based on the consensus of facts.. That fact alone largely renders your statements irrelevant..

You need to argue the issue as the AC's are in fact individual classes.. Because they are.. And then show how it would truly benefit the game and all the players to allow it.. You also have to show how rolling a new character doesn't accomplish the same thing, and come up with a logical reason that doesn't involve easier or more convenient.. As I have said before.. Laziness should never be a reason for any changes in an MMO...

lol lord isnt even PRO AC, he is however, neutral on the subject and trying to look at both side of the coin then go "im right, youre wrong"....which is more i can say for most people on this thread

To be fair MajikMyst I am hardly a pro class swapper. I made my distaste for the option pretty clear over multiple posts...the ONLY option that I could consider supporting reluctantly at this time is one that allows a change shortly after the first one is made, say within 5 levels. I'm trying to be the voice of reason and remain neutral and open to opinions other than my own though I may find the option concerning.

I think it's very relevant. The choice should have been at level 1 if it was designed as a class. If not that trivializes the choice. To say the choice is permanent and will not change is at best wishful, at worst dismissive IMO. They may allow AC change in the future and have eluded recently to that possibility. I think we have to face the possibly and at least find some way to present sensible restrictions.

I am not arguing for that at all. I am arguing that there is still room for discussion and the point that it is a class or not is actually what is moot...since what is important is what effect will allowing this change have on the game as a whole? That is what we should be asking IMO.

Well, to be fair you are creating facts that are more assumptions, and dismissing other facts to support those assumptions.

Neither side has cornered the market on facts or consensus. Any contention to the contrary is ludicrous IMO. I can respect your opinion, but I think it's too dismissive and wishing...certainly not realistic.

If we do nothing it is likely, IMO, that AC change will be implemented with little to no restrictions at all. That may not alarm you because you think it will never happen, but that alarms me greatly.....

And I for one will not bury my head in the sand. I will continue to discuss compromises.

With all due respect I just find this comment unrealistic. First, I'm sure you know you can not dictate how someone argues a point. And it is certainly not logical...rather amusing actually...to contend in any way that players want this based on laziness.

This is just not realistic and completely unproductive....almost toxic. IMO it contributes nothing to the discussion.

Yet another person who evidently refuses to acknowledge that ACs are sub-classes of the same base class and base class skills. So no, they they not entirely different.

There are so many things wrong with this statement, I am not sure where to start..

Ok.. Please read the EULA (End User License Agreement).. You will find this on your hard drive in your game folder..

You will notice in there that is says you have purchased a license to play the game.. Nothing in the game belongs to you.. You do not own your characters.. You do not own your gear.. You own nothing.. Yes that is right.. You own nothing.. Anything you buy on the Cartel Market is not yours.. All those speeders?? They will never see the inside of your garage..

You pay for a license.. That is all.. You pay for the right to play the game.. A right that Bioware may cancel at any time if they feel the need to.. Bioware is god around here.. They make the rules.. There is no higher ruling party or court other than Bioware when it comes to this game..

So no.. You do not own your characters and you can not just do whatever you want.. Oh.. No you don't pay for them either.. There is nothing in the game you pay for..

Perhaps you should read that large page of text for a change before you install the game..

The mistake you are making here is that it really doesn't matter when we choose our class.. The consequences of our choice are clearly stated.. Some people wait until 50 to choose their AC.. The when is irrelevant.. The understanding the consequences of choosing our class is all that matters..

[QUOTE=LordArtemis;6447495]With all due respect I just find this comment unrealistic. First, I'm sure you know you can not dictate how someone argues a point. And it is certainly not logical...rather amusing actually...to contend in any way that players want this based on laziness.

There is nothing unrealistic about it.. But it should go to show how stupid and fruitless this discussion is.. It was stupid and fruitless when it was discussed during the beta..

Because first people want to have the 'AC is not a class.' debate.. Which is pointless, Bioware already stated that it views the AC as our character classes.. So debating this issue ridiculous.. That is like debating a Ford is not a Ford when that is what Ford Motor company called the vehicle being discussed.. We as players do not get to make the call about what is or isn't.. We don't get to rename a Ford based on our views and we don't get to redefine a class based on our views..

As for the rest of it.. It is the reality of the situation.. Rolling a new character accomplishes all the same things as swapping AC.. I have both a shadow and a sage.. Separate characters, but I can both heal and tank..

As others have said.. Why would Bioware want to give away the game time to level a new character to the other AC.. It is not financially in their best interest to give away content like that..

There is nothing unrealistic about my statements.. But they should show how unrealistic the idea of swapping classes is.. Let's not forget how many times the game tells you both voice and text that your choice is permanent.. To even have this discussion you have to completely ignore that.. Which to me is a little stupid to say the least.. The game itself should be all the evidence we need to know the issue here and what the rules are.. Not to mention where Bioware stands on the issue.. After all they made the game say those things and wrote those texts.. So it should be completely obvious where Bioware is and has always been on this issue..

Well.. Doesn't there have to be something to discuss for there to be a discussion?? What is toxic is people beating this dead horse like they do..

There is no discussion here.. We all play the same game.. We all hear the same warnings.. It just boils down to who knows what the word permanent means..

These threads will never be productive because they ignore the reality of what is.. You can't have a productive discussion when people are pitting their views or feelings over the ruling of Bioware's law.. Or what the game itself says..

You want a productive discussion?? Make a new character, get it to level 10, and choose your AC.. Listen very carefully to those warnings.. All of them.. Read the warnings.. All of them.. Ok.. Now argue with that.. Because that is Bioware talking..

This isn't a new issue.. This was discussed during the beta.. We were told then that it would never happen.. Which is why Bioware put so many warnings in there.. In case you wondered.. People need to not take their choice lightly and they would have to live with the consequence of that choice.. There is nothing wrong with that.. People should be held accountable for choices about their character..

That is reality..