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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Evengelyne's Avatar


Evengelyne
06.16.2013 , 02:25 PM | #1181
So if this craziness were to happen, what happens to those of us who spent the time and effort leveling up both AC's of a Class?
I'd be pretty upset if suddenly there's no real difference between my Operative and Sniper. Or my Jugg and Marauder.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.16.2013 , 02:35 PM | #1182
Quote: Originally Posted by Evengelyne View Post
So if this craziness were to happen, what happens to those of us who spent the time and effort leveling up both AC's of a Class?
I'd be pretty upset if suddenly there's no real difference between my Operative and Sniper. Or my Jugg and Marauder.
The ones who want to change their class do not care. They only thing that matters to them is what they want, to have a new class without leveling it.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
06.16.2013 , 02:46 PM | #1183
Quote: Originally Posted by Evengelyne View Post
So if this craziness were to happen, what happens to those of us who spent the time and effort leveling up both AC's of a Class?
I'd be pretty upset if suddenly there's no real difference between my Operative and Sniper. Or my Jugg and Marauder.
there's still difference. they are different characters. you don't have to change their AC any, you can just keep it as is.

when I played WoW, I had several hunters. I split up specs between them because allowed for different playstyles without switching. even though I could play the same spec on a single hunter. the reason i had multiples was because I
1. like the class
2. they were different race
3. one of them is different faction.

aka - there will STILL be difference. because you don't have to switch your AC, just like you don't have to switch your spec.

and unless you play through the story in identical way, have your characters look identical and be the same gender? there's also that.

incidentally - I personally have 2 smugglers, 2 agents, 2 bounty hunters, 2 inquisitors, 2 consulars, 2 warriors. (and 1 knight, 1 trooper)
other than knight and trooper, I have one of each advanced class. and other than consulars and inquisitors, i have one of each gender.

I personally have no need for ability to switch AC.
but I still support it (with limitations). because - choices are nice, and because second chances are nice.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.16.2013 , 02:52 PM | #1184
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
there's still difference. they are different characters. you don't have to change their AC any, you can just keep it as is.

when I played WoW, I had several hunters. I split up specs between them because allowed for different playstyles without switching. even though I could play the same spec on a single hunter. the reason i had multiples was because I
1. like the class
2. they were different race
3. one of them is different faction.

aka - there will STILL be difference. because you don't have to switch your AC, just like you don't have to switch your spec.

and unless you play through the story in identical way, have your characters look identical and be the same gender? there's also that.

incidentally - I personally have 2 smugglers, 2 agents, 2 bounty hunters, 2 inquisitors, 2 consulars, 2 warriors. (and 1 knight, 1 trooper)
other than knight and trooper, I have one of each advanced class. and other than consulars and inquisitors, i have one of each gender.

I personally have no need for ability to switch AC.
but I still support it (with limitations). because - choices are nice, and because second chances are nice.

If only second chances didn't lead to begging for third chances and so on...

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
06.16.2013 , 02:59 PM | #1185
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Of course, if they allowed players to change their class, then the PERMANENT decision made at about level 10 when a player chooses his class would o longer be permanent. Just because something can be changed does not mean it should be changed.

Right now that decision IS PERMANENT, and I have yet to see any real, valid, and irrefutable reason why the devs should change that.
It's a shame you say real or valid. Plenty of real or valid reasons pro and con have been presented already. Only someone that is unreasonable would see otherwise IMO.

And when one looks at the compromise as follows...

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP is uneffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

It is difficult for me to see any serious detriments to the game or it's populace. Since the change is made very early...shortly after the original choice it is in essence the original choice, which has almost exactly the same impact that the original choice had.

The majority of complaints, short of it "not feeling right" or "minimizing the importance of choice" (still worthy reasons against it IMO, but not strong ones) are rendered moot by setting it up this way. It then simply becomes a "whoops" or "I discovered this AC is not fun" choice.

One only has 5 levels to make that determination....and to be honest, with the lack of sensible discussion in this thread I am becoming more and more likely to support this option. Now that I have seen the extreme pro and con sides I no longer wish to be associated with either one.

Both extreme sides are at this point ridiculous and petty in their contentions.

So I think I'm going to support this option. Barring some SENSIBLE and well thought out reasoning that changes my mind.

Let the forum PVP continue.......

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
06.16.2013 , 03:01 PM | #1186
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
If only second chances didn't lead to begging for third chances and so on...
and?

1. they don't have to keep giving people chances if they don't want to
2. while I personally prefer restrictions, unrestricted switching between advanced class will NOT be the end of the world
3. its a game. its supposed to be fun. choices are fun. not needing to take those choices is also fun. AC switch is optional choice. you don't have to use it.
4. this comes up a lot - wrong gear and inability to play a spec. as you have noticed, i have a lot of alts. as a consequence, I pug a lot, because my guildies are not always available and/or in a mood. I run into more people who don't really know how to play their class, then people who do. they fall into 2 categories. those who are willing to learn and they tend to learn pretty quickly. and those who are NOT willing to learn and there's just no helping those people regardless of what class/ac/role they play. ability to switch AC? will not change that. there will still be people who are willing to improve and people who are best added to ignore lists.

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
06.16.2013 , 03:11 PM | #1187
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
and?

1. they don't have to keep giving people chances if they don't want to
2. while I personally prefer restrictions, unrestricted switching between advanced class will NOT be the end of the world
3. its a game. its supposed to be fun. choices are fun. not needing to take those choices is also fun. AC switch is optional choice. you don't have to use it.
4. this comes up a lot - wrong gear and inability to play a spec. as you have noticed, i have a lot of alts. as a consequence, I pug a lot, because my guildies are not always available and/or in a mood. I run into more people who don't really know how to play their class, then people who do. they fall into 2 categories. those who are willing to learn and they tend to learn pretty quickly. and those who are NOT willing to learn and there's just no helping those people regardless of what class/ac/role they play. ability to switch AC? will not change that. there will still be people who are willing to improve and people who are best added to ignore lists.
i know its hard but think logically.. Why would a EA who makes money on people playing this game as long as possible want to make it so they shorten the gameplay??

I know the childish entitled want is everything for nothing. However EA will lose money because people will not p[ay as long when they can SKIP THE GAME.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
06.16.2013 , 03:36 PM | #1188
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
i know its hard but think logically.. Why would a EA who makes money on people playing this game as long as possible want to make it so they shorten the gameplay??

I know the childish entitled want is everything for nothing. However EA will lose money because people will not p[ay as long when they can SKIP THE GAME.

I know its difficult to broaden your views, but why would EA who is in it for the money, ignore the opportunity to not only make money of people buying additional character customization, but also extending the time people play the game, by giving them an opportunity to enjoy the character that they stopped having fun with, all over again.

forcing people to level a new character is not going to make people play longer, its going to make people leave, because they are not interested in leveling through the same story twice . there is NO point in leveling the same class within the same story more than once, unless you are having fun doing so. there is no point in paying subscription to the game, unless you are having fun playing it.

Grayseven's Avatar


Grayseven
06.16.2013 , 03:42 PM | #1189
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
i know its hard but think logically.. Why would a EA who makes money on people playing this game as long as possible want to make it so they shorten the gameplay??

I know the childish entitled want is everything for nothing. However EA will lose money because people will not p[ay as long when they can SKIP THE GAME.
People should want to play the game for as long as possible because it is fun. If the business plan of EA/BW is to have people replay 8 class story lines in order to "keep them around longer" they have much bigger problems.

AC change doesn't take away from game replay. It doesn't cause people to "skip the game". If they have a class fully leveled, they have already "played the game" and making someone play the game again isn't going to magically cause people to stick around longer.

People will stick around longer for fun, not in order to re-grind something they have already done just because they want to try out the "other option". Believe it or not, forcing a grind is not something that endears a company to its players.

You keep tossing "entitlement" around, most likely because you have no real argument and have to use insults and name calling to try to justify your myopic view. The simple truth is that happy players will stay and unhappy players will leave. I can't imagine EA/BW would lose people against AC change were it implemented (with the few childish temper tantrums being the exception as usual) but I can easily see people staying longer if it were implemented.

I'm currently leveling up a 9th character because after getting a Sith Sorc to 55 I wanted a Jedi Sage to give my guildies a few more healing options. I can't begin to describe how mind-numbingly boring it is to go through a class story a second time, nor to go through the leveling process a 9th time (though to be honest I've not gotten all of the other 8 characters all the way through their story arcs...mostly because the rest of the leveling process is just so dull). I'd much rather prefer to be able to switch my Shadow over to Sage because there is nothing in the leveling process of said Sage that is new.

And I can guarantee I'm not sticking around just because I "get to level yet another toon" nor am I spending any more money because of it but I can guarantee that boredom will chase me from a game faster than anything else.
"50 Grades of Shae", a heart-warming novel about a Mandalorian that delivers beat-downs and assigns grades to her victims.

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
06.16.2013 , 04:36 PM | #1190
Quote: Originally Posted by Grayseven View Post
People should want to play the game for as long as possible because it is fun. If the business plan of EA/BW is to have people replay 8 class story lines in order to "keep them around longer" they have much bigger problems.

AC change doesn't take away from game replay. It doesn't cause people to "skip the game". If they have a class fully leveled, they have already "played the game" and making someone play the game again isn't going to magically cause people to stick around longer.

People will stick around longer for fun, not in order to re-grind something they have already done just because they want to try out the "other option". Believe it or not, forcing a grind is not something that endears a company to its players.

You keep tossing "entitlement" around, most likely because you have no real argument and have to use insults and name calling to try to justify your myopic view. The simple truth is that happy players will stay and unhappy players will leave. I can't imagine EA/BW would lose people against AC change were it implemented (with the few childish temper tantrums being the exception as usual) but I can easily see people staying longer if it were implemented.

I'm currently leveling up a 9th character because after getting a Sith Sorc to 55 I wanted a Jedi Sage to give my guildies a few more healing options. I can't begin to describe how mind-numbingly boring it is to go through a class story a second time, nor to go through the leveling process a 9th time (though to be honest I've not gotten all of the other 8 characters all the way through their story arcs...mostly because the rest of the leveling process is just so dull). I'd much rather prefer to be able to switch my Shadow over to Sage because there is nothing in the leveling process of said Sage that is new.

And I can guarantee I'm not sticking around just because I "get to level yet another toon" nor am I spending any more money because of it but I can guarantee that boredom will chase me from a game faster than anything else.
you know wow has been around for the better part of a decade. Never once have people wanted a completely different class at max level to buy. People have played the same toon mutiple toons everything in wow for more then 8 years. This goes does not need pay to win, if you think it does then you are not the right type of person to play MMOs. What you want is an "i win" option because you are too lazy or too terrible at the game to actually earn stuff. EA wants you to level multiple toons, they will not just eliminate that aspect. It might make them money in the short term from the entitled children that play, but the gamers who play for the story and for the content and for star wars will leave the game, and that will hurt them in the long term. MMOs are not short term investments. What you want is a short term ideal without thinking fo the long term because you are not smart enough to think long term.

What is boring to you is not boring to others. If you feel ou are "too good" to level another toon and deserve to have one handed to you that is "entitlement" I have seen every story at least 4 times some as many as 20. Its only boring if you have no imagination which you do not seem to. If the game is boring to you then quit and play something else. Do not demand they let you skip the game because you are too childish to earn your max level characters.