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As a sniper/GS, who am I supposed to be attacking again?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
As a sniper/GS, who am I supposed to be attacking again?

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
06.14.2013 , 11:54 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by islander View Post
Right, being competent at damage dealing is the easier part of the equation.
Damage dealing takes some skill as well. Here is an example where a sniper can choose his rotation:

2 Targets. FT is procced and Ready. Current target is below 30%. What do you do? You can choose between:

1. FT + Takedown the <30%. But there is a chance you will outright kill him with FT, thus waste Takedown and a subsequent FT proc.
2. Takedown the <30% You waste your FT, but Takedown reprocs it for you to use it on second enemy.
3. Switch targets, FT on uninjured target, switch back to <30% target, Takedown + FT him. However you risk here that one extra GCD might allow for weaken target to heal, pop-up a defensive CD or get out of your LoS.

We are talking about potentially 3 instant attacks which can reach up to 15k damage in 3GCD, but if we make the wrong decision, we might only pop-up one FT and deny ourselves of 2 extra high damaging instants. We can play extra safe and go route #2 for 2 guaranteed instants, or we can risk choice #3 and get all 3 instants.

islander how often did you find yourself in this situation?

There is no universal solution here. And this is a split second decision. I don't need to explain how FT procs are key to MM and why we should struggle to use them as much as we can. So yes, damage dealing takes skill as well.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

islander's Avatar


islander
06.14.2013 , 12:17 PM | #52
#1.
Dead opponents do zero DPS to your other teammates and increases the zerg in your favor. Of course no scenario is cut and dry, opponents have defenses, undying rage, etc.
Sniper is a downhill class as an MM, meaning when the infantry/groundpounders get the advantage, it just stacks exponentially when you can have snipers and DPS sorcs just raining DPS on top of them unharassed.

I 'try' to make every decision based on objectives, versus my own total output. I make loads of minor mistakes in each warzone- in the heat of battle, bugged GCDs, in the middle of a crowd with reduced visibility, etc.

I'm not suggesting damage dealing is easy. Optimal damage dealing is very difficult. I'm just suggesting that properly used utility is tougher for most warzoners to grasp. Being able to break up three or four people turning a node for 3-5 seconds when you have to roll in there 1 on 5 can buy you just enough time for the rest of your team to arrive.
Gěllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
06.14.2013 , 12:24 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Damage dealing takes some skill as well. Here is an example where a sniper can choose his rotation:

2 Targets. FT is procced and Ready. Current target is below 30%. What do you do? You can choose between:

1. FT + Takedown the <30%. But there is a chance you will outright kill him with FT, thus waste Takedown and a subsequent FT proc.
2. Takedown the <30% You waste your FT, but Takedown reprocs it for you to use it on second enemy.
3. Switch targets, FT on uninjured target, switch back to <30% target, Takedown + FT him. However you risk here that one extra GCD might allow for weaken target to heal, pop-up a defensive CD or get out of your LoS.

We are talking about potentially 3 instant attacks which can reach up to 15k damage in 3GCD, but if we make the wrong decision, we might only pop-up one FT and deny ourselves of 2 extra high damaging instants. We can play extra safe and go route #2 for 2 guaranteed instants, or we can risk choice #3 and get all 3 instants.

islander how often did you find yourself in this situation?

There is no universal solution here. And this is a split second decision. I don't need to explain how FT procs are key to MM and why we should struggle to use them as much as we can. So yes, damage dealing takes skill as well.
Right now with healing being unbelievably strong #2 is overwhelming the better choice simply because if you blink at the wrong time someone might get back to 100% so you can't take that chance unless you know for sure there are at most only one healer on the other side. Right now DPS basically favors killing whoever you can possibly kill just because if you don't do that, nobody will ever die. It's not clear how killing a random guy helps your team win objectives, but it's still better than not killing anybody at all.

The first two order of priority is simple:

1. Anyone who can be executed.
2. Any healer that you have a clear shot at (this means no nearby obstruction, so a healer near a pillar does not qualify).

After that, you should generally attack whoever is furthest from their healer, or whoever is standing in a position that is unlikely to have LoS to their healer. For example, anyone standing in the south control room in Novare Coast most likely do not have LoS to their healers. If they do, then you usually have a clear shot at their healer as well as a healer has to stand away from a wall to heal someone inside that room.

Polymerize's Avatar


Polymerize
06.14.2013 , 12:28 PM | #54
There is no 'optimal' damage output in warzones.

NoTmrw, I do not think your scenario holds much weight although I understand your point. I find your scenario to be rather moot, I would personally do anything to kill the lowest enemy first immediate regardless of whether it is 'optimal' or not. Because for reasons like you said they could eventually give you LoS issues, pop a medpac, use an ability like 'undying rage' or 'force barrier', etc etc. I would rather kill the low enemy then possibly give them the change to stun me and allow both of them a small one duration to simultaneously beat on me, which usually happens.

Trying to force an 'optimal rotation into a PvP scene is a faulty endeavor.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
06.14.2013 , 12:40 PM | #55
That is the conclusion i wanted you to arrive at, because there is no optimal \ universal solution, this is not something you can learn blindly by heart.

If you wanted to kill your target ASAP, you still have choice #1 and choice #2 available and the consequence to this choice is how you begin your DPS race with the next target after the first one dies. If you can squish one extra FT for your target you are in a good spot.

If you are quick enough to see that he can eat one crit FT and still survive, then you #1.

These decision points leave room for a lot of improvement, and you need to balance the cotrolling with the damaging. When dueling deception assassins for example (they are allowed to start from invis, can combat stealth) i found that it is very easy to go overboard with either control or damage: you dont want to be trailing behind his damage but neither you want to be controlled.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

KettleBelll's Avatar


KettleBelll
06.14.2013 , 01:33 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Polymerize View Post
There is no 'optimal' damage output in warzones.

NoTmrw, I do not think your scenario holds much weight although I understand your point. I find your scenario to be rather moot, I would personally do anything to kill the lowest enemy first immediate regardless of whether it is 'optimal' or not. Because for reasons like you said they could eventually give you LoS issues, pop a medpac, use an ability like 'undying rage' or 'force barrier', etc etc. I would rather kill the low enemy then possibly give them the change to stun me and allow both of them a small one duration to simultaneously beat on me, which usually happens.

Trying to force an 'optimal rotation into a PvP scene is a faulty endeavor.

You ain't foolin' anyone who watched yer vids! You fighting in PvP goes like this:

- Stay stealthed 65% of the wz
- Waste even more time setting up a phase walk
- Waste yet more time returning from that phase walk, and trying to find a target that you are brave enough to attack.
- Come out of stealth, instantly hit phase walk in panic
- Hit Force Shoud
- Live for 3 seconds because of Force Shroud
- Force Shroud ends
- You life drops from 100% to 0% is record time. We're talking Warp Factor 9 here.


If the Star Ship Voyager and you in space had a race to see who could get their life bar to 0% faster, you'd win it.

Polymerize's Avatar


Polymerize
06.14.2013 , 03:34 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
That is the conclusion i wanted you to arrive at, because there is no optimal \ universal solution, this is not something you can learn blindly by heart.

If you wanted to kill your target ASAP, you still have choice #1 and choice #2 available and the consequence to this choice is how you begin your DPS race with the next target after the first one dies. If you can squish one extra FT for your target you are in a good spot.

If you are quick enough to see that he can eat one crit FT and still survive, then you #1.

These decision points leave room for a lot of improvement, and you need to balance the cotrolling with the damaging. When dueling deception assassins for example (they are allowed to start from invis, can combat stealth) i found that it is very easy to go overboard with either control or damage: you dont want to be trailing behind his damage but neither you want to be controlled.
I'm not sure I don't even...

Yestreen's Avatar


Yestreen
06.14.2013 , 03:38 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by KettleBelll View Post
You ain't foolin' anyone who watched yer vids! You fighting in PvP goes like this:

- Stay stealthed 65% of the wz
- Waste even more time setting up a phase walk
- Waste yet more time returning from that phase walk, and trying to find a target that you are brave enough to attack.
- Come out of stealth, instantly hit phase walk in panic
- Hit Force Shoud
- Live for 3 seconds because of Force Shroud
- Force Shroud ends
- You life drops from 100% to 0% is record time. We're talking Warp Factor 9 here.


If the Star Ship Voyager and you in space had a race to see who could get their life bar to 0% faster, you'd win it.
At least be is being constructive and on topic, which is more that what I can say about you.
Wurdlol
<Hey im mvp>
www.twitch.tv/wurdlolswtor

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
06.14.2013 , 03:45 PM | #59
Kettle, are you a short timer? I'm pretty sure unsubbing boost a person's trollichlorian count by 2-3 times.

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
06.14.2013 , 03:55 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
Kettle, are you a short timer? I'm pretty sure unsubbing boost a person's trollichlorian count by 2-3 times.
jesus christ you people know how to make me laugh. Thank you and kettlebell for the funny posts
I am on short timer as well btw
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.