Advance Class Change: Good or Bad idea?

Thats a good point but it can be debated. Theres so many comparisons we can all put out that could make it seem like its a huge difference, and some that can make it seem like a minor difference.

There has been some good points, but then there has been some things that are just so out there that it seemed invalid. But then there has been some things I said that others would look at as invalid so it goes both ways. Its really just about what side your on, people who are for it see the reasons why it shouldnt as invalid, and those against it see the reasons why it should be is invalid.

A lot of the things we have been talking about have been non-related and irrelevant, I was called out on it so I try to stay on topic.

It's not the specific that you wanted that is important. It is the fact that this is not the first time you have asked for something for nothing.

What do you mean something for nothing? Can you elaborate a little? Like, are you saying we have to give them something for these features? Im pretty sure no one is expecting either of the features your referring to be free.

No one is expecting them to be free? I refer you to your own post:

Your own words indicate that you expected to be given 8 extra character slots for free. Now you want to be given not just one, but two, entirely new classes without the effort of leveling them.

That was back when you had only 8 character slots, look at the post date that was almost a year ago. Read further into the post, I said I think there should be given some more free character slots but anything after that would be a paid service, clearly I was prepared to pay as needed.

So do you just live your life on the forums and argue with people and try to make them look stupid? Seriously, get off peoples back. Nevermind dont answer that, after going to your profile and read your posts, thats exactly what you do, your just a troll.

I would like to chime in here, since it seems a few kooky folks are raging all over the thread instead of actually discussing the issue at hand....

Here is what I feel are the reputable reasons for and against.


Logical and reputable reasons against allowing AC change


FOTM abuse - Any logical player would have to concede that a late game AC switch could be exploited depending on how it is designed, and this could impact class representation and player motivations with respect to bringing about positive changes to classes with problems.

Leveling process exploitation - This could be an issue, but it already an issue in the game with free respecs. The same arguments were presented against free respecs, and though the problem already exists it would likely increase with AC changes.

Lack of comfort/familiarity with changed AC - This could be a concern to a lesser degree, depending on how it is implemented. In general it seems about 5 levels and perhaps a dozen or so endgame raids can provide the kind of experience needed in the new AC, but at the time of change it could be said the player would not know how to play the AC correctly.

Reduction of reroll requirement mechanic that promotes game play - Folks would not have to reroll. That would reduce the amount of time folks have to play to reach the top of a desired class, and this is likely contrary to the original intent to encourage reroll.

All of these are valid concerns, though the impact and importance is certainly debatable. There are plenty of valid pro reasons as well.


Logical and reputable reasons for allowing AC change


1) People make the wrong choices in AC
Especially early after choosing the AC, if someone discovers they have chosen the wrong AC they are either stuck with that AC or have to reroll and play through the content they JUST played through all over again. It's one thing to reroll a new AC at 55...it's quite another to do so at level 10, especially if this is your first character.

2) Choice is generally preferred by players in the genre
This has been demonstrated in the market time and time again, not to mention that the game did not fare well out of the gate, and one of the reasons often cited by launch players was that the game did not allow customization or choice. It is well known that the prior team was very much against allowing choices other than the ones they allowed by design.

3) Easier for folks to change over from DPS to pure healing or tank ACs
It can be argued that there are too may DPS characters in this game, and that DPS tend to have a problem getting in groups. For max level it may be adventurous to allow folks to be able to change their AC to one of the ones that perform better as a healer or tank, since some ACs do not support those roles very well. This could cause more healers and tanks to be available for groups.

4) Players would be more likely to level characters that are currently stagnant due to the wrong AC choice
This again refers to early change, the one that I am most likely to support, if any. I personally have a smuggler that sits at level 15 and has not been leveled since launch. I chose the wrong AC and simply made the character a crafter. Allowing an EARLY change would allow me to correct my bad AC choice and actually experience the smuggler story.


I would also point out that making the contention that players will ask for more is not a completely reputable contention. There are plenty of examples where players complained about how things were, things changed and the playerbase was satisfied for the most part.

The most recent examples I can think of would be 4 action bars for Preferred players, planetary comms moved to 100 and QT down to 30 minutes.


Now here are some disreputable reasons for and against.

Almost ever other reason posed other than those above are pretty much ridiculous IMO. I will list just a few of the more obtuse ones from both sides....


NONE of the reasons listed below are reputable reasons and folks should STOP using them in the discussion IMO


Pro

Player will leave if it is not allowed.
It will ruin the game if not allowed.
It would have no impact on the game whatsoever.
It will not effect other players in any way.
It is definitely going to happen.
AC was never designed to be a permanent choice/it is not a distinct class.

Con

Players are lazy and should not be catered to.
Choices matter/Not designed that way/Never will happen.
Players will leave if it is allowed.
It will ruin the game if it is allowed.
It will make players bad players.
It is P2W.

Community members seem stuck on the idea that AC need to be defined as a class or not, the meaning of permanent, making claims like it will help or hurt the game without providing any logical examples of such, and other nonsensical diatribe.

This behavior really doesn't further the discussion or add any validity to the arguments pro or against.

People love to compare the switching of an Advanced class to the respeccing of abilities, so I will have a go at that argument:

By now, I got a sage and a shadow on 55 both in 69er equip (the sage partially 72, the shadow partially 66), so I claim, that I know both chars. Both are played almost exclusively as a specialist, but the sage also dubs as DD.

For both sage and shadow, I am using three "main" action bars and two secondary bars for stuff like speeder, resting, fast travel.

When respeccing my sage from healer to DD, I am loosing 3 healing-skills from all of my action bars and gain 2 telekinetics or 3 balance skills, depending which tree I spec to. The majority of skills is totally the same even though obviously the priority of useing them is not the same anymore.

When I look at my shadow however in comparison, the action bars are filled as well... but there is well over a dozen skills that are totally different from the sage skills.

The sage is a ranged class, no matter how it is specced and will almost never use a melee saber attack.
The shadow however is a melee class, which does use the short range force effects, but will almost never kill anything without slashing it with its double blade.

So from my experience with the two advanced classes of the consular basic class, I claim, that they share the story and the main attribute, but are two totally different classes. In fact my scoundrel-healer plays more like my sage-healer than my shadow does, and noone was ever arguing, that a change from one healer AC to another healer AC should be possible.

Finally some comments on the pro/con list of above: (I deleted the ones appearing on both sides)

That pro and con list at the end of the post was actually the pros and cons that I found incredulous and ridiculous. They were not meant to be supported or sensible pros and cons...they were examples of what folks should NOT put forward as reasons for or against. I clarified the post to make sure folks understand that.