Dread Guards Nightmare overtuned

deleted

Good thing the 8m guilds stayed in their lane for NiM EC. Wonder what you all would have thought of pre-nerf 16m tanks and pre-nerf Kephess (who was in fact impossible without cheesing the mechanics).

16 Man NiM EC Kephess was still undefeated for 1 month and a day after NiM EC went live.
NiM Dread Guard are undefeated for 14.5 hours.
Not exactly a new record for SWTOR.

Sure the best guilds have put in as much as 8 hours on NiM Dread Guard, but it took ACE and Friendly Fire several times that to down 16 man NiM EC Kephess.

Heck, 16 man NiM F+B were undefeated for 10 days.

A boss taking longer than a week to kill has precedence in SWTOR, this isn't a new phenomenon. Let's wait for the champions to kill it at least once before it's nerfed (I doubt I'll get a pre-nerf kill so I'm not advocating for myself, but for the HC guilds).

Honestly KBN,

Your overall theory of 2317 seems a bit low. I can't vouch for other guilds, but seeing as though the top-rated raid teams across servers are addressing the issue, I can't help but think your analysis is off. Do I have any hard evidence to prove this? No. But I can however tell you, that based on my guilds attempts and parses, 2317 as a minimum is too low. We were pushing collectively around 2500, minus AOE, and of course burst fluctuation.

I also agree that until you've attempted it, seen the fight, parsed the numbers for yourself, juggled theories on mechanics and what you can do as a group to improve, you really shouldn't be antagonizing others for voicing a concern about it.

Now that that is out of the way,

I don't feel as though they should completely come in and revamp a nerf on the fight, it has only come out. But some minor tweaks and tuning is evident. My raid team going in knew we were going to have to solve the riddle of mechanics, but honestly, when I see guilds who I know are better than us struggling to even get close to downing the fight, in my mind, something is definitely wrong.

It's a legitimate concern that needs to be addressed.

Just given our sheer numbers, and taking into the account the difference between my raid team and the top raid teams on my server, its proving to be an impassable wall, not only for us but for them. In current BiS gear, I don't feel the fight is impossible, but highly improbable to clear. You're looking at like a 1-2% success rate, if even that high. There may be something we are missing, maybe we just have to punch out some crazy numbers, rework rotations, etc...but how to go about it? Nobody can give an answer.

Again, glad to see some really tough content, but also hoping to see it tweaked (not nerfed) a little bit in order to give us a little better odds on clearing it, as to not mess too much with current mechanics.

This **** is what's wrong with the thread.

"but my guildz da best if we cant kill it NOBODY CAN K GUIZE U CAN'T SAY **** TIL U BEEN IN DERE KBN K omg u dont no anything shut up pls"

In a nutshell.

If you look at every other boss in the operation, such a strict enrage timer is nowhere to be seen. Even with our easy going raiding style, we probably have a larger window of time before the enrage timer could pop it's head during those fights. This, on top of the fact that 16m raids have always had the DPS advantage to 8m.

Personally, I believe that the fight is beatable in some fashion, with the perfect comp, some RNG dust sprinkled on that 1/65th attempt, and the eye of a newt. Is this content reasonable enough to allow access to varying primary dps classes? Not DG in its current state. The mechanics are more than reasonable: fix the enrage timer - don't change the fight. Nobody is asking for it to be easy. We were ecstatic to see the numbers higher and more challenging! And, it should be said, the other fights are fairly worthy of a Nightmare Mode operation, as well as, fun.

There is a gap between the serious raiding guilds and the ones that still can't clear NiM Kephess EC. Then, there are some in between that can defeat the content, minus the title, given a few weeks/month. At the top are the guilds that have been farming current HM Operations since PTS/Release, fully itemized with prerequisite tier gear for weeks, chomping at the bit for a challenge that should only take a handful of attempts to learn at that caliber. Should hard enrages be avoidable in Nightmare Modes, who knows?

If you can manage to get the Devs to set down their martinis this weekend to address DG before reset, awesome! What will happen when Sunday rolls up and everyone is still at DG? Will they eat their pride and have realized that they spent many hours suffering the incessant repetition of excellence only to be rewarded with 20% attempts and an apology from BW? We have people that skipped work and other things to bring action and spirit back into SWTOR endgame raiding only to be delayed a day and 2hrs. That's the game, I suppose, but moving forward...

deleted

If you are so certain that the current state of the DG fight is intended, can you explain why every other boss in NiM TFB is a pushover in comparison? Do you truly believe there is balance in light of each other? Far be it from me to assume, go and try those fights for yourself, or take a few attempts to get a feel for the weights of each fight. Let me know if Terror provides more of a challenge than DG.

Like I mentioned my guild isn't attempting Dread Guards on NiM.

You can't have every boss of equal difficulty, and some bosses will be more challenging in different areas to others. Compare Vorgath to Kephess in NiM EC; Vorgath was the 'pushover boss' of that instance, TWH is the 'pushover boss' of this instance. I enjoy how much it lulled everyone into a false sense of how easy NiM TFB was going to be.

Roadblock Boss anyone? oh right... everyone is taking the deture...