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Difference between removed and kicked


Tampania's Avatar


Tampania
06.11.2013 , 07:52 AM | #1
Last night I queued for a 55 HM FP. I am DPS so it took a while. However, once it popped (it was an already in progress Flashpoint), before I could hit the travel now button, there was a message that <name> has removed you from the group. it happened within a few seconds of me hitting the ready button. I then got a message that i left a Group Finder and could no longer queue for 15 minutes.

I was a bit confused as to how this occurred, did they vote to kick me within a span of 7-8 seconds? If so, why did i get the debuff? Is there a difference between being removed from group and kicked? And does the message reflect thedifference? The only other thing i can think of is I suppose its possible someone had me on ignore and its automatic?

psandak's Avatar


psandak
06.11.2013 , 08:05 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Tampania View Post
Last night I queued for a 55 HM FP. I am DPS so it took a while. However, once it popped (it was an already in progress Flashpoint), before I could hit the travel now button, there was a message that <name> has removed you from the group. it happened within a few seconds of me hitting the ready button. I then got a message that i left a Group Finder and could no longer queue for 15 minutes.

I was a bit confused as to how this occurred, did they vote to kick me within a span of 7-8 seconds? If so, why did i get the debuff? Is there a difference between being removed from group and kicked? And does the message reflect thedifference? The only other thing i can think of is I suppose its possible someone had me on ignore and its automatic?
The term "kicked" comes from the "vote to kick" option. Once you are voted out, you are removed. So game mechanics wise being kicked and removed are the same thing - different terms for the same effect.

As for how it could happen so fast, I do not know. One possibility, is that the group in question was a group of friends and/or guildmates wanting to get another friend into their group. Since GF does not allow manual invites once the group is in an instance the only way to accomplish this is to have the friend queue and then the rest of the group pray. When they saw you were not their friend they instantly voted to kick you. It sucks, but there is no limitation on kicking at the moment. Other MMOs have systems in place to prevent such abuse.

As for why you got the debuff, again unknown, but chances are it was because the system is flawed - the devs probably never anticipated a player being kicked so fast and so the system assumption is that you left the group of your own free will (seeing a character you remember and did not want to group with, accidentally clicking ready rather than decline when the group finder popped, etc). Being on someone's ignore list would mean that the system would not put the two of you together in the first place.

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
06.11.2013 , 09:55 AM | #3
I think there is a very, very, VERY brief window of time where you have joined the group but are not protected by the group finder. So the normal group mechanics work, by which I mean the group leader can simply remove you from the group without a vote.

If you had been removed by vote kick, the message is closer to "you have been removed from the group finder by vote kick. Reason: xxxxx". The "person x removed you from the group" is what you get in normal group mechanics.

EDIT: I consider this to be a bug, and the fact you had a debuff to be a side effect of it. My guess is some server-side logic that went to update your status as being in a GF group, but found you not in a group at all, and figured you left and gave you a debuff.

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
06.11.2013 , 05:51 PM | #4
Exactly the same thing happened to me just with the difference that it was an Ops GF. Before I even managed to click "travel" I was removed from group by leader (because "our guildie came, sorry"...) and the message showed that I left GF and I'm now locked out for 15 minutes.

And no OP, it wasn't because of any ignore list. I whispered the leader asking "what the hell?", she admitted she kicked me because their guildie came for my place

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
06.12.2013 , 01:50 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
Exactly the same thing happened to me just with the difference that it was an Ops GF. Before I even managed to click "travel" I was removed from group by leader (because "our guildie came, sorry"...) and the message showed that I left GF and I'm now locked out for 15 minutes.

And no OP, it wasn't because of any ignore list. I whispered the leader asking "what the hell?", she admitted she kicked me because their guildie came for my place
It really, really sucks when players use groupfinder only to be removed by someone because of a "guildie"
"Though free to think and act, we are held together, like the stars in the firmament, with ties inseparable. These ties cannot, be seen, but, we can feel them"
- Nikola Tesla

znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
06.12.2013 , 09:59 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
It really, really sucks when players use groupfinder only to be removed by someone because of a "guildie"
That's a reportable offense.

theUndead's Avatar


theUndead
06.12.2013 , 11:25 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by znihilist View Post
That's a reportable offense.
Not to be insensitive or anything but how is that reportable offense?

Edit: I tried to form a group of pugs for TFB SM a few nights ago and some people had to leave after the first fight because their guilds were calling. Was I annoyed? Maybe a little but that is it.
The Hellion Legacy (Harbinger)
Referal Link
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
As theUndead mentioned, I can't exactly spell out all of our policies in depth, but that should hopefully cover your concerns.

znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
06.13.2013 , 12:26 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by theUndead View Post
Not to be insensitive or anything but how is that reportable offense?

Edit: I tried to form a group of pugs for TFB SM a few nights ago and some people had to leave after the first fight because their guilds were calling. Was I annoyed? Maybe a little but that is it.
Because they removed him without any justifiable reason, the kick is there to remove abusive players. Kicking someone because he is not a guild-member is an abuse of that feature and that is why it is a reportable offense.

Edit: it is different from what you experienced, you FORMED the group. The OP in this case used the group finder.

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
06.13.2013 , 02:20 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by znihilist View Post
Because they removed him without any justifiable reason, the kick is there to remove abusive players. Kicking someone because he is not a guild-member is an abuse of that feature and that is why it is a reportable offense.
It is the way it should be but not how it works in reality.

Players still kick groupfinder members in favor for their guilds and there is nothing the kicked player can do about it.

The group used what tools are given to them to kick a "outsider" to let a guildmember play instead. It has been written alot about this on the forum before.

I would like to see a statement from Bioware or a change how the mechanics around replacing members work, but donīt get your hopes up
"Though free to think and act, we are held together, like the stars in the firmament, with ties inseparable. These ties cannot, be seen, but, we can feel them"
- Nikola Tesla

Synavix's Avatar


Synavix
06.13.2013 , 04:16 AM | #10
It's similar (although not quite the same) to WoW's policy about master looting or kicking people from raids for ***** reasons. Even though there aren't really any set rules about it, toxic behavior deserves to be punished or it will spread. I doubt anyone will ever be warned or suspended for your average "Sorry, we're kicking you for a guild mate", but once some total *** sets a precedent bad enough that he does get reported for something serious, I hope BW takes notice and starts watching things like this more closely.

It's really a shame that it happens so often. I can't count the number of times I've queued up to GF as a tank or joined a PuG on my most geared character just because I wanted to help out, only to be kicked later on with no explanation or thanks.