ETA on Advanced Class change?

That's a pretty ludicrous contention IMO, not to mention serving to your position. I tend to think they lost those players because people are tired of the trinity and gear slot machine and want to do something else...see how that works?

And I think they will decide. Saying there should have never been a conversation stands as another "your wasting your time it will never happen" comment, or at least infers that. If this is the will of the populace it will likely happen. I would rather see some restrictions than simply allow it to be the same as the free respec they implemented.

But I think saying it should be closed to discussion is a bit opinionated and to indicate it portends disaster just doesn't make sense IMO.

The same thing that is or was asked about everything else they said was a permanent choice and would never change, like creation appearance or cross class gear appearance....what do the players want? Originally these kind of things were indicated to be permanent by design and they had no intention of allowing players to change them then or in the future.

That dev staff is gone. The current dev staff seem much more open to changing what was considered "rules" from the past.

I just disagree. They should ignore the folks that say they will leave simply because it is fundamentally wrong to make choice not matter...like they ignored those that thought character creation choices should be permanent, or no character should ever wear gear that does not visually identify the class. Bioware DID ignore those folks and I think the game is better for it.

Any argument that is prefaced with the contention that players being lazy is the only reason they make a request should be automatically rejected as judgmental, fallacious and predatory, and therefore not worthy of consideration. If you have to insult someone to make your case your case has no merit IMO.

Do a post history check on that particular community member. You will clearly see the nature of that person's posts. Which in turn should define the weight of their comments and contributions IMO.

Yes, you are 100% correct. Which is why I am against the idea of AC change. It states permanent, therefore, expect permanent. I also agree that if BW implemented the once change (and once more, back) to begin with, this would likely be a moot point.

If it were up to me, this would not even be a topic of discussion, there would be no AC changes what so ever. However, it is not up to me. Also, it is not up to the people who would like to throw cash at the problem and change AC's more times than their own socks.

There is, however, a middle ground. That is the point of view I am trying to reach. A way the people who say "it says permanent" and "it can lead to AC swapping more than a kardashians marrage" can be appeased with the knowledge that with a twice in a lifetime change (swap once, with an option to swap once more, back) that there is still a backbone (however bendy) in the notion that AC's and the choices regarding them still mean something.

Also, it allows that small amount of flexibility in offering those who do wish to swap AC's the chance to do so. Of course, there are some arguments which ring true such as achievements and event items (rackgoul plague crystals) which a reroll simply cannot accommodate for. With that in mind, I do (however reluctantly) see an honest and legitimate reason for want of an AC change. That said, I will fight tooth and nail to see the number of changes minimised hehe.

^^ Well said!!

This is precisely why I don't wish to see anything more than a twice in a lifetime swap

Well said IMO. I'm still on the fence. I fail to see how anyone can state this definitely will not have a negative impact on current classes in the game that become undesired. My worry is that certain classes will stagnate because of poor initial design and lack of interest due to the availability of an AC change option.

As it stands now those that chose that AC but perhaps do not enjoy it are vested in improving it. If they are allowed to change AC that may remove that advocacy, and I'm not sure that's good for the game.

At the same time I see little harm in allowing an EARLY AC change shortly after the first choice is made. I'm just not real fond of the late AC change idea.

Those opposed to AC change have lost sight of the fact that TOR is a game. Laziness, hard work, earning your way, those are irrelevant concepts in this context. From players' perspective, only one thing matters: enjoyment. From BWEA's perspective, only one thing matters: making money.

You are correct that TOR is a game. The concepts of laziness, hard work and earning what you want are not irrelevant in any way. Quite the contrary, those concepts are as important in a game as they are in real life. I won't even hazard a guess as to how often the desire for instant gratification or "I need it now" bleeds over from the game world into the real world. I only know that each and every day I come face to face with that same attitude more and more.

It may be the example someone in this thread used earlier-the person who drives in the carpool lane alone, knowing that they are breaking the law, but justifying it to themselves with the excuse that they are in a hurry, they don't want to sit in traffic, or just the "it doesn't affect anyone else" excuse. It may be the person who is fully capable of working, but refuses to work because it's easier to collect welfare. It might even be that co-worker who does shoddy work that you have to go back and make right, yet gets paid the same as you.

Let's be honest here. Nothing about this game is hard work. It only requires some time and a little effort to obtain what you want. If you want something enough, you should be willing to put forth at least a little time and a modicum of effort to obtain it.

Why do people keep trying to compare WoW classes to SWTOR classes? There not the same, quit using "well WoW didn't allow you to change classes" nobody cares, this isn't WoW. In WoW if you rolled a warrior, you could play any spec you wanted without having to make a new character, in this game if you rolled a knight you have to play 2 knights to play all specs.

That being said, I'd like to see AC switching, with some restrictions. Only so many per character and time limit in between. I'm not a big fan of my 55 vanguard and wish I could switch to a commando, and I'd have no problem rerolling if what I accomplished on my vanguard switched over, mounts, titles, achievements, gear, ect, would switch over as well.

You can play all three specs of whichever class you choose. If you choose to play vanguard, you can play all three vanguard specs. You cannot play all three commando specs unless you roll a commando, as that IS a DIFFERENT class.

The difference in this game is that you don't actually choose your class until at least level 10. Can you reach max level as a trooper without actually choosing an AC or "final class"? Yes, you can but you will be denying yourself a lot of class skills.

But we're talking about advance class switching not regular class switching. It's 2 different things. Vanguards and Commandos share some abilities that come from being a TROOPER because TROOPER is the class. It's the same for every class, each class shares some abilities between the 2 AC's, it wouldn't break any part of the game by allowing people to switch. If I switched from a vanguard to a commando, I still throw grenades, I still shoot a gun, I still use the same companions, it doesn't break story line, the only thing that changes is how my character is played. In any game you're allowed to do this, switch in between your general class.

No. Trooper is the base class. Once you choose your AC, you are no longer just a trooper. You class becomes vanguard or commando. If you doubt me, do a /who, check your guild roster or just mouse over a vanguard or commando. Do you see any class listed as trooper-vanguard or trooper-commando? NO. You see vanguards and commandos because those are their classes, not trooper. This is why the game advises each and every player several times that the choice is permanent and there is NO going back. This has been backed up by the devs stating that the AC's are different classes.

Think of it as tree. The trunk is your base class, in this case trooper. The base class branches out into two separate and distinct classes( the AC's), much like the trunk separates into the branches of the tree. Once the trunk separates, the branches continue off in different directions, and do not meet up again. Once you start up one branch, in order to get to the other branch, you have to go back down to the point of separation and then go back up the other branch. That is not possible in this game. If you wish to see where that other branch might lead, you have to plant another tree, or roll another trooper to see what the commando is like, if you chose vanguard with the first trooper.