ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
ETA on Advanced Class change?

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MajikMyst

06.04.2013 , 04:33 PM \| #561	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar And yet they can dps and heal? But not tank.. No class can do all three roles.. That is the issue..
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him? [.] Lost but never forgotten!! 12-01-2011 R.I.P.

Ratajack

06.04.2013 , 04:35 PM \| #562	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Spatology How are we to know ANY of those quotes are real. You smell of propaganda. I have seen nothing in any of LordArtemis' posts that would indicate he is anything other than what he claims to be, someone who wishes to have an open and honest discussion. I've not seen him post anything untrue, although he and I may differ on our interpretations of some quotes. I do not believe that he is dismissing, ignoring or refusing to present one side of the debate in order to make his position look stronger. He has been equally receptive to arguments from both sides of this issue.

MajikMyst

06.04.2013 , 04:43 PM \| #563	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi I am FOR AC changes, but it has to have "some" restrictions.... . The only restrictions that was agreeable to the majority in the beta was this.. You would be allowed to change your AC twice and only twice.. Once at or before lvl 20.. If you passed level 20 and didn't use your AC swap, then your character was forever the class you originally chose.. Then again at or before lvl 30.. This was just to allow people to return to the original class they chose, but it did give people 10 level as the new class to see how they liked it.. If you were level 31 or higher, there would be no changing your AC.. You couldn't change it back to the original AC or attempt to change it for a first time.. The above rules had a majority vote in the beta.. The other restriction is that people would have to understand that this would be a permanent thing.. There would be no discussions about adding more options to change your AC.. Which is why we don't have AC swapping now.. Nobody knows what permanent means.. Purchasing AC swapping in the Cartel Market could be viewed as Pay to win and would then be a very bad idea.. Bioware has repeatedly said they are against Pay to win situations.. Part of the reason that I feel there is no reason for AC swapping, is that I honestly don't believe we would be having this discussion of our AC was chosen at level 0 or character creation.. The fact that we are allowed a small preview and then choose our AC at level 10, people somehow get the idea that our class is less than permanent.. I fail to see that logic..
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him? [.] Lost but never forgotten!! 12-01-2011 R.I.P.

LordArtemis

06.04.2013 , 07:38 PM \| #564	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack The difference is that no suggestion I have seen from you has contradicted its own restrictions. Fair enough. Quote: Originally Posted by Spatology How are we to know ANY of those quotes are real. You smell of propaganda. Actually I smell of 20 year old scotch and shame....... Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack I have seen nothing in any of LordArtemis' posts that would indicate he is anything other than what he claims to be, someone who wishes to have an open and honest discussion. I've not seen him post anything untrue, although he and I may differ on our interpretations of some quotes. I do not believe that he is dismissing, ignoring or refusing to present one side of the debate in order to make his position look stronger. He has been equally receptive to arguments from both sides of this issue. Thank you. I was actually calling into question the sense of posting reasons like..... You argue because you don't like it. There isn't a single good reason not to allow AC respec. or.... If you don't like it reroll Only lazy players want this. I just don't like this kind of dismissive post. There are good points and concerns on both sides and I think if this is to move forward we should be willing to listen to the opposite side and discuss it.
O> My latest game suggestions...what would I change if I could? O> New end game raid suggestion...Tomb of Lords O> My suggestions to adjust the level sync system..... O> Links to my other game suggestions

Xeperi

06.05.2013 , 04:05 AM \| #565	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin Yeah, I concealed the fact that I think TOR is not a game by calling it a game. Then PvE must not inherently be a game. But wait, it is a game. It's just not an inherently competitive one. Perhaps you need to look up the word "inherent." And don't look up "inherit" by mistake. Perhaps you need to look up "game" while you're at it. I think you just wrote something cogent. Call the Pope! Call The National Enquirer! Two-headed crocodile-apple crossbreed, your oddity has been eclipsed! Winding you up and watching you whirl around like a monkey on crack is way legit, dude. Nah, I very clearly made the case that in order for something to be a game it must have some element of competition. You are ignoring that point and trolling me instead.

spectreclees

06.05.2013 , 04:16 AM \| #566	Quote
If they allow AC changes I'll most likely quit. It ruins the whole point of picking one in the first place. You choose your path, you stick with it. You don't decide to become a healer randomly. That's not how it works. WoW had tri-spec classes but they also used all of their abilities from each spec. Paladins for example as a retribution (Dps Paladin) you could still cast a small heal once in awhile to keep yourself alive you also had a defensive cooldown (Tank) and you had your taunts (though they did nothing.) This game doesn't allow that. You don't pick up heal abilities from your sage tree as you level your shadow. You are essentially changing your entire class and learning new abilities.
http://www.swtor.com/r/mZNBRj Referral link for 7 days of free game time and a starter pack.

branmakmuffin

06.05.2013 , 09:50 AM \| #567	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Xeperi Nah, I very clearly made the case that in order for something to be a game it must have some element of competition. Take the time, look up the word "game." Then come back here and show us your back-pedaling skills. Or don't. Your choice. Erroneously accusing someone else of trolling is itself trolling.

Xeperi

06.06.2013 , 12:37 PM \| #568	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin Take the time, look up the word "game." Then come back here and show us your back-pedaling skills. Or don't. Your choice. Erroneously accusing someone else of trolling is itself trolling. This is why way at the beginning of this I said we could argue the origins, history, and evolution of "Game/gaming" or we could just agree that there must be some element of competition in order for something to be considered a "game". You responded by ignoring that point (which really is trolling) and berating me. You still ignore the point. You refuse to acknowledge the key point here which is why I really hesitate to put much more energy into this. But anyways here goes: http://www.definitions.net/definition/game Quote: game /gām/NounA form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck. AdjectiveEager and willing to do something new or challenging: "they were game for anything". (of a person's leg) Permanently injured; lame. Play games of chance for money: "the gaming tables of Monte Carlo". Synonymsnoun. play - match - sport adjective. brave - plucky - courageous - gallant - ready - manful Synonyms also provide a great indication of the meaning of a word: Quote: Main Entry: game [geym] Part of Speech: adjective Definition: brave, willing Synonyms: bold, courageous, dauntless, desirous, disposed, dogged, eager, fearless, gallant, hardy, heroic, inclined, interested, intrepid, nervy, persevering, persistent, plucky, prepared, ready, resolute, spirited, spunky, unafraid, unflinching, up for, valiant, valorous Antonyms: afraid, cautious, cowardly, disinclined, fearful, unprepared, unready, unwilling Main Entry: game Part of Speech: noun Definition: entertainment Synonyms: adventure, amusement, athletics, business, distraction, diversion, enterprise, festivity, frolic, fun, jest, joke, lark, line, merriment, merrymaking, occupation, pastime, plan, play, proceeding, pursuit, recreation, romp, scheme, sport, sports, undertaking Main Entry: game Part of Speech: noun Definition: individual sporting event Synonyms: competition, contest, match, meeting, round, tournament Explore game in the Visual Thesaurus � Main Entry: game Part of Speech: noun Definition: undomesticated animals chased for food Synonyms: chase, fish, fowl, kill, meat, prey, quarry, ravin, victim, wild animals Main Entry: game Part of Speech: noun Definition: plot, trick Synonyms: butt, derision, design, device, hoax, joke, object of ridicule, plan, ploy, practical joke, prank, scheme, stratagem, strategy, tactic Main Entry: action Part of Speech: noun Definition: something done Synonyms: activity, agility, alacrity, alertness, animation, bag, ballgame, big idea, bit, business, bustle, commotion, dash, deal, energy, enterprise, flurry, force, functioning, game, going, happening, haste, hoopla, hopper, in the works, industry, life, liveliness, motion, movement, occupation, operation, plan, power, process, proposition, racket, reaction, response, rush, scene, spirit, stir, stunt, trip, turmoil, vigor, vim, vitality, vivacity Antonyms: cessation, idleness, inaction, inactivity, inertia, repose, rest, stoppage = informal/non-formal usage Main Entry: activity Part of Speech: noun Definition: special interest or pursuit Synonyms: act, avocation, bag, ballgame, bit, deed, endeavor, enterprise, entertainment, game, hobby, job, labor, occupation, pastime, project, racket, scene, scheme, stunt, task, trip, undertaking, venture, work, zoo Antonyms: hate = informal/non-formal usage Main Entry: bet Part of Speech: verb Definition: gamble Synonyms: ante, buy in on, chance, dice, game, hazard, lay down, lay odds, play against, play for, play the ponies, pledge, pony up, put, put money on, risk, set, speculate, tempt fortune, toss up, trust, venture, wager Main Entry: bird Part of Speech: noun Definition: flying animal Synonyms: feathered creature, fowl, game Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus, Third Edition Copyright � 2013 by the Philip Lief Group. Cite This Source More important than "dictionary dot com" definition of a word is its etymology. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=game Quote: game (adj.2) "brave, spirited," 1725, especially in game-**** "bird for fighting," from game (n.). Middle English had gamesome (adj.) "joyful, playful, sportive." game (n.) Old English gamen "game, joy, fun, amusement," common Germanic (cf. Old Frisian game "joy, glee," Old Norse gaman, Old Saxon, Old High German gaman "sport, merriment," Danish gamen, Swedish gamman "merriment"), regarded as identical with Gothic gaman "participation, communion," from Proto-Germanic ga- collective prefix + mann "person," giving a sense of "people together." Meaning "contest played according to rules" is first attested c.1300. Sense of "wild animals caught for sport" is late 13c.; hence fair game (1825), also gamey. Game plan is 1941, from U.S. football; game show first attested 1961. game (adj.1) "lame," 1787, from north Midlands dialect, of unknown origin, perhaps a variant of gammy (tramps' slang) "bad," or from Old North French gambe "leg" (see gambol (n.)). game (v.) Old English gamenian "to play, jest, joke;" see game (n.). Modern usages probably represent recent formations from the noun. Related: Gamed; gaming. So we can see there are both competition and non-competition related uses of the word. Here is a synopsis of the history of games, and though it is wiki (and so not 'academmic') the article its self is a good overview with solid citations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_games Here is a longer and more academic version of the same: http://www.gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/...es/origins.htm In popular vernacular the word "game" its self so strongly implies "competition" that it is a word used to describe the level of competitiveness in a fighter. The human fighter, dog, **** (or whatever) is said to "have game" or "be a game dog" if it refuses to give up or quit- if it has an extremely high level of competitiveness. It is not only reasonable to include COMPETITION as a necessary part of "game", but it is unreasonable to disallow the inclusion of COMPETITION in any debate about a game unless that game is exclusively defined and designed to be non-competitive. I do not expect you to actually read any of these many references which BACK MY POINT, nor do I expect you to counter them with references of your own to back your own point that by definition "game" is exclusive of competition. I do not expect that from you, but for the sake of my own argument, and to my own standards of making SUBSTANTIATED POINTS, I wanted to at least CITE some of my own sources. Very few,if any, people are ever going to agree that the word "game" is entirely exclusive of "competition" or that in order for something to be a "game" it must have zero competition. The problem with "game dogs" though is that they keep wanting to fight despite getting torn apart. They will fight till they die. I am making the more reasonable argument here Bran, give up, your dog is out of this fight. It is tore up and bleeding out and it still wants to fight, but put the poor thing out of its misery already and get it a good vet. The irony- your own level of competitiveness keeps you behind a losing argument.

LordArtemis

06.07.2013 , 11:39 AM \| #569	Quote
It seems that arguing over the definition of words tends to bring the discussion to a halt. So, right now it looks like the two suggestions are.... Low level AC change allowed shortly after making your first AC choice so you can correct a mistake in that choice. Top level AC change with limited uses after your story completes with a cooldown. I am leaning toward supporting the first one.
O> My latest game suggestions...what would I change if I could? O> New end game raid suggestion...Tomb of Lords O> My suggestions to adjust the level sync system..... O> Links to my other game suggestions

Windova

06.07.2013 , 11:48 AM \| #570	Quote
My opinion: AC changes would be fine, it doesn't bother me that much. This game is simple to convert to a different class and easy to adjust to. Out of all MMOs I have played this one has to be the easiest when it comes to learning a class. HOWEVER We have double XP weekends. This should be a time where someone who wants that other AC go ahead and level it. It's really not that hard to level a toon up quickly with the double XP. Now my argument would be one or the other. We can't have both too many people will rage quit. I would personally prefer the double XP weekends every other month instead of an AC change. But if your going to implement AC changes than lose the double xp weekends. No sense in keeping them both when double xp is for those who can go level up there opposite AC over a weekend.
Your worth enough dead....

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