Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

This is a classic example of failure to take responsibility for your own choices. *You* chose not to form a premade. And, unless you are literally deaf, *you* chose not to use one of any numerous free or very cheap voice options out there. (And even if you are deaf, many deaf people are very good at discussing tactics in advance / using other tools like Alt+F/Ctrl+F to make up for their disability. Plus deaf people tend to be fast typers for the same reason that blind people tend to have good hearing. Yes, they are still disabled, but so are people playing with only one hand, and I don't hear anyone saying we should all be nerfed in some way so one-handed people can be on an even playing field. And if you do think we should all play with one hand tied behind our back to put one-handed people on an even playing field, see Harrison Bergeron.) You may have perfectly reasonable reasons for *choosing* not to form a premade and get on voice with them, but it is nonetheless *your choice*.

But rather than accept responsibility for *your choice* to queue solo without voice, *you are blaming other people for your choice*. Your problem isn't premades. You could make your own, get a free or cheap voice server, and have all the same advantages as them. Your problem is yourself. You chose not to do so and you are unwilling to accept responsibility for the consequences.

A the difference between a hopelessly bad PvPer, and a bad PvPer who at least has the *potential* to become good, is that the latter realizes the great truth of the following:
We have met the enemy, and he is us.

Another good one:
It is not from their friends, but from their enemies, that cities learn the art of building high walls.

Good premades make you stronger by showing you what you should be doing, if only you have enough sense to learn from them. But of course, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If you refuse to drink, that is no one's fault but your own.

How are you so dumb as to think you speak for all solo players?

This is false. I often queue solo, and when I do, I am a solo player. I have no issue with queuing against premades.

If you truly do not wish to fight premades, there is a simple solution: do not queue for warzones. Or withdraw consent at any time by leaving the warzones. When you queue for a warzone, you accept that you may be matched against people who are much better than yourself. If you only want to play against people who are worse than yourself, advertise that you are looking for 1v1s, but only accept requests from people you deem worse. Or, on a PvP server, go one-shot some lowbies.

False. The choice is, does BW want our business or not?

Do you want to let solos in ranked? Why not?

^ Premades want to have it both ways. Like I said earlier, "Excuse me - the definition of PVP is not, "being stuck with premades."

I could win all day in a premade and not like it. Solo players don't dislike cooperation, but try to TELL me what class to play? Get bent. Target callers are incredibly, what is the word, anal retentive. Get on the headphones, no thank you I don't want to be in a group of people I might look down on socially, trying to tell me what to do. How do you take them seriously as a strategist if you don't take them seriously as a person? So those are just a few good reasons not to want to join a premade. It's not that we "don't want to be good." It's that we "don't want their company." In a premade, or in a warzone with their premade.

I would argue they're not even much good for the game. As I said earlier, "these "great noble premades of ultimate skill" are usually just gravity-spamming plus ranged DPS plus sentinel speed plus immorto heals plus guardian running around twice as fast as everybody else taking advantage of the no-challenge game play.

Whatever BW devs think, this ^ can't be what they're shooting for; it's what they're getting, to me, I think the company ought to be embarrassed to be hosting such a thing."

But if you do want a tip, as far as that goes, when I do play with friends, Google Hangout has been a million times better than mumble or ventrillo, and free.

Also, the people in premades usually whine a lot when things aren't going their way. Don't want to hear it from what ought to be grown men. Join = Fail.

You know what's ruining Warzones (at least for me)? People who have no idea what it is they should be doing. Even when instructions are explicitly given to them via chat, they disregard the information and proceed to fail miserably. Honestly, you'd think that for some people this is the first video game they've ever played in their entire life.

Ancient Hypergate: Last round, all we needed to do was defend our pylon and we would have won the match. I said as much multiple times in the chat. "Don't rush the middle or attack their side, defend our pylon and we'll win." So what do the seven other members of my team do? Exactly what I tell them not to do. I was left to defend the pylon by my lonesome and sure enough, the enemy team took it and we lost.

How difficult is it to read the chat, communicate with others and use a little common sense?

I'm sure plenty of other people would quit, or at least threaten to, or at least play much less often and only in ranked, if Bioware refused to let them group with their friends in unranked. It is a social game, and, for some people, playing with their boyfriend/girlfriend/fiance/wife/friends is the only reason to play. Take away their ability to play together, and you take away their reason to play. And I think the threat of such people to quit is more serious than the threat of people to quit just because they don't want to play against better players, as the latter will still find they are unable to win against better players even if the better players are not in a premade, and will still blame everyone else besides themselves rather than asking, "What can I do to get better?", and will quite possibly leave the game regardless, but alas, it will do them no good, as their inability to learn will follow them to the next game they go on to. Regardless, Bioware cannot make everyone happy no matter what they do, and aren't likely to bend over backwards for people who are impossible to please anyway, because they are hopelessly bad PvPers who always blame other people, saying "they are too good" instead of "I need to be better", and will always be complaining about something no matter what Bioware does, unless Bioware finds a way to make it so both sides can win warzones so there aren't loser anymore.

Yes, I would like soloers in ranked, actually. A full team of 8 soloers would make no sense, obviously they would just be free ranked commendations for the opposing team, but I wouldn't mind seeing soloers backfill after someone disconnects from a ranked warzone, if said soloer doesn't mind. Or if the team only has 7, it makes as much sense to PUG the last slot for ranked warzones as it does for a level 55 hardmode ops. Yes, it would probably make more sense to advertise on general and actually get the person on voice, but hey, people do the same for ops, pugging an 8th slot and not getting queue-chosen person on voice even though it's hardmode.

Premades are either better, or you do not notice that they are premades. If the former, they put work in, choosing a balanced team, getting people on voice, having a good leader call good instructions out on voice, etc., and deserve to be rewarded for that as much as people who put work into gearing up properly / adjusting their build to work with their playstyle / learning how to kite / learning a good rotation. Teamwork -- which can only realize it's full glory in a premade with voicechat -- is as much a part of the game as gearing and kiting and learning rotations and all that good stuff. And as for the premades that you don't even notice, it's probably just someone queuing with their friends/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend/fiance for social reasons, and nothing to worry about.

Being stuck with people who are more talented or better geared or otherwise "overpowered" relative to you is part of PvP. Even if you are one of the best, the game has something of a rock-paper-scissors design, and there will always be *someone* out there who can find an exploit your weaknesses. If people like you aren't complaining about pre-mades, they're complaining about how kiters are cheating because they move and make it hard for you to hit them, or how predation is a hack, or how snipers or scoundrels or shadows or sorcerers or commandos or vanguards or juggernauts or marauder are overpowered, or how there's too big a gear gap between Partisan and Conqueror, or any number of other things, rather than accept responsibility for gearing up, learning to play your class, learning to kite and use cc to mitigate other people's kiting, learning the strengths and weaknesses of other classes, working together with other players, or at least, accepting responsibility enough to realize you have no one to blame but yourself for the fact that you are not reaching your full potential. People like you will always find other people to blame for their failures rather than improving.

And you just provided a list of reasons why (serious) premades are better than you. It's more likely you'd be told to respec than switch to an alternate -- the leader won't even know you have any other 55s unless you tell them you do -- but if you play a guardian, for example, and you aren't at least *willing* to guard one of the healers if no one else volunteers, then quite frankly, you don't deserve to win. Same if you play an operative and aren't at least *willing* to respec to healing in the event two others don't volunteer to heal. You may *prefer* a particular playstyle, and may in fact be able to do it most of the time and still win because a) other people are often willing to fill other roles and b) you tend to be better at what you are good at, but if you aren't willing to adapt to the needs of your team, you don't deserve to win. You are of course free to queue solo and play a willpower-geared gunslinger if you want to, but premades would be right not to welcome you. Target calling is one of the things that makes serious premades better than pugs -- if you don't like it, there's another reason you don't deserve to win. Don't respect your teammates and don't want to get on headphones because of that? Seriously? You can't find anyone you respect enough to get on voicechat with? Another reason you don't deserve to win. Good teams are filled with people who mutually respect each other, not egomaniacs who look down on everyone.

Yes, you do have plenty of good reasons not to join a premade. You'd only drag them down, for the reasons you yourself listed. Thank you for not joining premades.

Yes, you just want to *be good* without doing any of the work necessary to be good. I understand completely. You want being good to be handed to you instead of having to work for it.

Not what we're asking for. Just want the toggle for a solo-only que. Creates three tiers:

1. Solo
2. Casual Group
3. Ranked.

Firstly, whatever that does to your queue is not our problem. We are more than happy to wait a little longer if it means no 4-mans. Secondly, the queue times argument is BS. There are plenty of premades in non ranked now, there will be plenty of premades in non-ranked then, the only difference is they will HAVE to play each other. And we won't have to play them.

As far as ranked queues go - not our fault you guys won't play each other.

That's "Play with me" syndrome. People who consider their playstyle to be the correct one and make every attempt to force it on those that pursue alternatives. Reminded me of this post on Rift forums.

Basically people in their comfort zone refusing to recognize that this comfort zone is not universal to all the playerbase. They religiously enforce their views, grow a bigger sense of entitlement and spend a lot of time bashing alternative paths, dismissing other, no less demanding (in a way applicable to an online game) ways to focus one's effort.
Straw is coming out of every stitch of this man-shaped post.

Can also be turned around against premades with "if you're so amazing, then play rateds" rhetoric, which also isn't the solution, considering the current state of events.

Also, "If u dun liek 'Murica, then leeeve!" logic is extremely constructive.
Fine by me. If premades are truly the majority, which the advocates have been seen suggesting, then it's the solo players who choose to queue solo only will suffer bigger queue times. Naturally, the truth is somewhere in the middle and both sides will have increased queues, but I, as someone who runs both solo and premade, am completely fine with that. Casual premade on premade games are what gives me the most joy, but rolling over a pug is just a waste of time, unless you're farming them for comms on purpose, which is just low.

Playing with a group of guildies/friends is great fun

MMOs are not solo games, stop making them such, make friends, make a premade team together and have more fun than you ever would have in solo pvp.

If you get defeated because you choose not to take advantage of human's natural ability to communicate and work together as social animals then you have no right to whine about it.

It's about the level of organization. You still work together with pugs - you call incomings, you respond calls, you confirm tactics.

But, unlike premades, you can't filter group composition - you don't get to decide how many healers and tanks you have, which DPS you use (for backline and frontline forming, how aggressive or defensive your composition will be etc). You obviously don't have the experience playing together - important for playstyles to "click" together. And you don't have voice comm, which is, while overrated, according to some, is very, very useful for relaying general enemy movements around the map, calling inc, cancelling calls, informing of attack redirections, etc. Writing isn't half as comfortable and fast, and is worse on the receiving end (you don't usually read chat in combat, but when you hear verbal warnings, you may readjust).

You can't hope for 11 random people tossed into a football field to have a fair shot against than 11 people who have been training together for a couple of months and have designated positions and roles (goalie, offense, defense) - unless the randoms plain outclass them, which in ToR is a rare occasion, thanks to a rather subpar common denominator.

Good Idea. Also remove ranked comms from vendors so people who solo queue can't get conqueror unless they play ranked. Works for you? I mean why solo and casual players should be rewarded with best pvp gear if they don't want to play against better teams? Put rating on conqueror to force people into playing ranked. You don't like ranked? Don't play them but enjoy your partisan set, the difference between 2 sets is minimal anyway.