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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
05.31.2013 , 11:38 PM | #401
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
if you have to ask that then you are a very ignorant player.

When you put effort leveling a character you learn how the character work, why certain skills go in certain orders. Being handed a 55 without learning how to play it will make a bad player even worse. As it is people for the most part are bad, however you give a bad player a max level toon and you instantly get someone who is far less useful then a companion in starter gear.

There is 0 good that comes from giving anyone a max level toon for no reason. Sorry but just because you level a sorc does not mean you have and clue what so ever on how to play an assassin.

At level 1 you pick the story you want to see, at level 10 you actually pick one of the 2 classes that go to that story. You do not pick your class at level 1. A sorcerer is not the same as an assassin, you should never be allowed to go from one to another. Its no different what so ever and no less stupid then someone in WoW wanting to have a max level rogue just because they leveled a priest. If you cannot understand that then i am shocked you were smart enough to get to max level in the first place.
Have you noticed that this same argument holds true for a skill tree respec?

As an example, my second level 50 was my Sage. I had exclusively leveled as a Hybrid TK/Balance spec and was doing okay, but not great. Right about that time I joined a guild and they were short healers, so I agreed to respec and give healing a try.

I was TERRIBLE at it. Truly terrible. I couldn't even keep Qyzen Fess alive during Ilum dailies. I came to these forums, asked for advice, got confused, tried different things, and slowly, over time, figured out how to be a not terribad healer. Eventually, once I got the hang of it and got really comfortable, I started to heal operations and for a while acted as one of my guild's main healers.

Had there been an AC swap, and had I a wild hair up my fundamental aperture, and had I decided to switch into a Shadow Tank, I would have had the exact same experience. I would have started out all thumbs, gotten into trouble, came to the forums, got advice, and eventually figured it out.

So why is one okay and the other isn't?

At least the point about loot ninjas makes sense to me. It can only get worse when players start rolling need on gear that doesn't match their AC.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
05.31.2013 , 11:40 PM | #402
Quote: Originally Posted by Jedi_Titus View Post
This is one of the stupidest suggestions. This is the epitome of laziness. You know whatever, do this Bioware. The people who are stupid enough to pay for this don't have the drive to level a different class, they obviously don't have any drive to become better at the class they already have.
Right, because it takes a lot of drive to play a computer game.

BennyKrak's Avatar


BennyKrak
05.31.2013 , 11:55 PM | #403
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
if you have to ask that then you are a very ignorant player.

When you put effort leveling a character you learn how the character work, why certain skills go in certain orders. Being handed a 55 without learning how to play it will make a bad player even worse. As it is people for the most part are bad, however you give a bad player a max level toon and you instantly get someone who is far less useful then a companion in starter gear.

There is 0 good that comes from giving anyone a max level toon for no reason. Sorry but just because you level a sorc does not mean you have and clue what so ever on how to play an assassin.

At level 1 you pick the story you want to see, at level 10 you actually pick one of the 2 classes that go to that story. You do not pick your class at level 1. A sorcerer is not the same as an assassin, you should never be allowed to go from one to another. Its no different what so ever and no less stupid then someone in WoW wanting to have a max level rogue just because they leveled a priest. If you cannot understand that then i am shocked you were smart enough to get to max level in the first place.
By your logic then, if I have a max level Sentinel AND Guardian, I shouldn't be allowed to switch the AC's on both of them, even though I know how to play each class and put the time and effort in to level both of them and learn each AC ? - note I'm not being given a 'free max level character'

Besides, someone might have a level 55 Sentinel and a level 55 Juggernaut and want to switch the Sentinel to a Guardian so as to be able to play the mirror AC of their main on the other faction. Do you assume that because they don't already have a level 55 Guardian that they are unable to play it? Or are you just ignorant?

In any case, I wouldn't mind a one-time advanced class change. The main reason (for me), being that in hindsight I would have rather made my Guardian a female and my Sentinel a male - seeing as there is no gender change available (and most likely never will be due to companion quest lines / affection), the only way I could possibly achieve this is by switching my male Guardian to a Sentinel, and my female Sentinel to a Guardian.
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Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
06.01.2013 , 12:18 AM | #404
Quote: Originally Posted by BennyKrak View Post
By your logic then, if I have a max level Sentinel AND Guardian, I shouldn't be allowed to switch the AC's on both of them, even though I know how to play each class and put the time and effort in to level both of them and learn each AC ? - note I'm not being given a 'free max level character'

Besides, someone might have a level 55 Sentinel and a level 55 Juggernaut and want to switch the Sentinel to a Guardian so as to be able to play the mirror AC of their main on the other faction. Do you assume that because they don't already have a level 55 Guardian that they are unable to play it? Or are you just ignorant?

In any case, I wouldn't mind a one-time advanced class change. The main reason (for me), being that in hindsight I would have rather made my Guardian a female and my Sentinel a male - seeing as there is no gender change available (and most likely never will be due to companion quest lines / affection), the only way I could possibly achieve this is by switching my male Guardian to a Sentinel, and my female Sentinel to a Guardian.
no you should not be allowed to swap them. If you have a male sentinel and want a female then reroll. Sorry you will never "guilt" me into saying you shouldn't have to reroll. I was in the alpha and beta stages of this game, i also did not quit when my server populations died before the mergers. I have seen the jedi Knight story 18 times, the Sith Warrior story 9 times the trooper story 4 times the bounty hunter story 5 times, the operative story twice and the smuggler story 4 times. All because i was a true tester of the game and had to start over every build, and when my servers died after the game went live i simply started over on a new server. I did not QQ that is should be given a free character i just moved on. However i am not some lazy self centered pile of crap that thinks because i pay 15 bucks a month i should be handed everything on a silver platter. I have rerolled a toon i have had at 50 and in full BiS gear simply because i didn't like the eye color, granted that can be changed now.

I have leveled everything in the game more then once but the Inquisitor. I will never ask for a class change because a class change is a choice and its a choice you need to deal with. I do not care if you feel entitled, you need to be held accountable for crap sometimes. It takes less then 70 hours of played time to level a toon to max level with 0 assistance. This is an mmo its ment to be played for years not days. Taking 3 days of play time to make a new toon is NOTHING. Go talk to the real old gamers of wow they will tall you they have over years worth of played time on some of their characters and the though as asking for a class change never crossed their mind. Also if you really have played a Guardian and a Sentinel you would know the play styles are completely different, so swapping them would be a detriment to the player doing so not to mention they require different gear.

Sometimes too much freedom is just bad for a game. Choice is a big theme of this game and choices should matter. If you got to 50+ and desided you did not like your toon make a new one, do not cry and throw a tantrum and demand to swap.

If you are not willing to dedicate even the small amount of time to making a new toon then odds are you are not going to keep playing the game anyways so why hurt the overall community, just quit and be done with it. This entitled attitude of the childish gamers now is absurd. If you were to buy a car and keep it for 6 months you cannot take it back to the dealership and say hey i don't like this model gimme a new one, they would laugh at you.

Just because your soccer mom gives into ever little whim it does not mean the rest of the world will too.

Jedi_Titus's Avatar


Jedi_Titus
06.01.2013 , 12:25 AM | #405
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
Right, because it takes a lot of drive to play a computer game.
Exactly

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.01.2013 , 12:55 AM | #406
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
no you should not be allowed to swap them. If you have a male sentinel and want a female then reroll. Sorry you will never "guilt" me into saying you shouldn't have to reroll. I was in the alpha and beta stages of this game, i also did not quit when my server populations died before the mergers. I have seen the jedi Knight story 18 times, the Sith Warrior story 9 times the trooper story 4 times the bounty hunter story 5 times, the operative story twice and the smuggler story 4 times. All because i was a true tester of the game and had to start over every build, and when my servers died after the game went live i simply started over on a new server. I did not QQ that is should be given a free character i just moved on. However i am not some lazy self centered pile of crap that thinks because i pay 15 bucks a month i should be handed everything on a silver platter. I have rerolled a toon i have had at 50 and in full BiS gear simply because i didn't like the eye color, granted that can be changed now.

I have leveled everything in the game more then once but the Inquisitor. I will never ask for a class change because a class change is a choice and its a choice you need to deal with. I do not care if you feel entitled, you need to be held accountable for crap sometimes. It takes less then 70 hours of played time to level a toon to max level with 0 assistance. This is an mmo its ment to be played for years not days. Taking 3 days of play time to make a new toon is NOTHING. Go talk to the real old gamers of wow they will tall you they have over years worth of played time on some of their characters and the though as asking for a class change never crossed their mind. Also if you really have played a Guardian and a Sentinel you would know the play styles are completely different, so swapping them would be a detriment to the player doing so not to mention they require different gear.

Sometimes too much freedom is just bad for a game. Choice is a big theme of this game and choices should matter. If you got to 50+ and desided you did not like your toon make a new one, do not cry and throw a tantrum and demand to swap.

If you are not willing to dedicate even the small amount of time to making a new toon then odds are you are not going to keep playing the game anyways so why hurt the overall community, just quit and be done with it. This entitled attitude of the childish gamers now is absurd. If you were to buy a car and keep it for 6 months you cannot take it back to the dealership and say hey i don't like this model gimme a new one, they would laugh at you.

Just because your soccer mom gives into ever little whim it does not mean the rest of the world will too.
Maybe try again, without insulting, condescending, or patronizing, if that's even possible for you to do.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.01.2013 , 02:00 AM | #407
Quote: Originally Posted by Quraswren View Post
Sorry but an AC swap is not getting anyone handed anything, by your own example they put in effort to level that class. IT should not be waste just cause they didn't enjoy it at endgame. They put in little effort anyway - no matter the AC or in game event.

There are already tons of people that do not know how to play there class. Gamers like to label them as "bads"

They will likely never change and will always be around. We have all been around them.

Good players however are also out there and should they dislike their current AC, they will not only put in effort to know the new AC, they will also be the ones to have gear waiting and ready for new AC. The are what we call good players.

So no, there is no more negative than you already have to deal with in game now.

Again, you present a rather weak argument. It's an argument but it holds little water.
NO. A player leveled a sorcerer, for example. That player did not level an assassin. Allowing class changes would hand that player an assassin for nothing. They did not put any effort into an assassin.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
06.01.2013 , 02:07 AM | #408
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
if you have to ask that then.....
I have to ask because respec presents the same problems and the same tired uninformed arguments...it is likely the reasons given are incredulous, as your post clearly indicates.

Not to mention the inability to make your point without insulting someone directly and breaking forum rules.

I'm sure someone has a reply that is actually not filled with recycled fallacies or predatory surreptitious diatribe.

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
06.01.2013 , 02:29 AM | #409
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
I have to ask because respec presents the same problems and the same tired uninformed arguments...it is likely the reasons given are incredulous, as your post clearly indicates.

Not to mention the inability to make your point without insulting someone directly and breaking forum rules.

I'm sure someone has a reply that is actually not filled with recycled fallacies or predatory surreptitious diatribe.
the reasons have been given time again and again. You simply do not want to hear them because you want something for nothing. So not matter what you will never think there is a good reason you shouldn't be handed something for not earning it.

Xeperi's Avatar


Xeperi
06.01.2013 , 03:59 AM | #410
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
Again, if "resistant and challenging" (as if TOR as-is is all that challenging in any event; and if you're implying that allowing AC change is tantamount to a total lack of resistance and challenge, put that hyperbole to bed) is how you get your fun, go ahead. If "pliant and easy" is someone else's idea of fun, who are you to tell them otherwise? As stated many times, how they choose to play the game has no impact on you, other than to the extent you allow it.
The notion of earning something has to do with rarity which has to do with value. The value of anything decreases in proportion to any increase in supply. When you allow for people to simply switch a class (advanced class) you remove all the value from that class. Specifically you remove the value of earning your way up in that class. So it does have an impact on me. If I have a level 55 Jugg without free class switch it means I earned it, it has more value. If I have a level 55 jugg WITH free class switch, it means I merely leveled a Sith Warrior to 55 and might not even know how to play Jugg. The value is removed or at least greatly lessened. It means that the hours and hours I put into leveling an advanced class are made that much less valuable because anyone can instantly have the same advanced class at the same level without putting that time in.

Its like saying the VALUE (the quality that affects ALL users of a thing) of a Lexus would remain the same if everyone was able to trade in their Dodge and get the Lexus with no additional cost. It wouldn't remasin the same and all Lexus owners would be adversely affected.