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[ATTN DEVS] Please Fix ASAP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
[ATTN DEVS] Please Fix ASAP

Skolops's Avatar


Skolops
05.30.2013 , 03:05 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by BoushhDC View Post
I only asked about commando, not the other 15, but it seems to be the answer is "no" you don't play your 55 commando in ranked because you are better at another class, whichever that may be. And I understand about team composition if you have a set group as many guilds do. So do you have a commando on your ranked team or not, (because you only mentioned fighting "against" them, not with one as part of your team)? If not, why not? Is it because you have found, as most guilds have, that spot if better filled by other classes with more power/ utility if given the choice? Be honest. If Commando was in "such a good place" A) you'd either play one or B) you'd demand to have one on your team.
No commando because our best sorc is better than our best merc. Composition wise, they both fill a similar role and bringing one or the other, based on player skill, is what makes sense rather than bringing one of each.
El'Skan-Assassin /// Laetrie-Sniper /// Caelie-Slinger /// Fidaeria-Jugg
Armack -Chaetrie -Gaurex -Isdron -Skol'ompara /// Misericordiae -Elnar -Rujko -Sophiya
<I AM LEGEND>
Prophecy of the Five

BoushhDC's Avatar


BoushhDC
05.30.2013 , 03:12 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
I agree an disagree. If Commando was so good every team would have one. I also think the ultimate balance of ranked PvP is when any class can be found on teams. Not that you HAVE to have one for some gimmick or that you HAVE to have one because their DPS is so much better, but because that player fits with your style. The day you can pick your class based on your playstyle and know that you are viable in ranked (assuming you as a player are skilled) is the day class balance is perfect.

So I would be fine with his team not having one, but every team not having one because it's not viable is an issue. I'd like to lean towards the second one, but I have seen some streams of top rated teams taking mandos into ranked (surprisingly no mercs though...).
I don't really see where we disagree. And I would also be fine with his team not having one if he wasn't asserting that commandos are in a sufficiently "good place." It's like that old saying, "put your money where your mouth is." He has already established that he doesn't PvP in ranked with one (doesn't mention if he PvPs in regs with one), so the only aspect to query is whether or not there is one as part of the set/regular team (not a fill in because someone else that usually does it isn't available, or the guild is so small, they don't have their pick of classes/ good players, for example). If the answer to that is also "no" then I see no basis for the statement that commandos are in a "good place."

TLDR: Commandos have been and continue to be treated as second-class citizens. Even in your observation about vids of ranked, did you notice your own subtle "taking mandos into ranked?" Perhaps you didn't intend to imply the bring along, i.e. "carry," but the implication and perception would not be inaccurate.
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved. --Sun Tzu

ciTriChOtshOt's Avatar


ciTriChOtshOt
05.30.2013 , 03:24 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Mikeieveli View Post
Im a Sentinel, I like BJs, and I stay in your house. My summer looks good...
LOL

She looks good at the bar, when you're in walmart and you see the SWTOR cover on the magazine. So you buy her a few drinks, a few months of subscription, just to try her out. Everything seems fine. BUT THEN! Then she wants to move in, you think, "Cool, we can split the bills, plus she helps clean and does most of the cooking, I could get used to this." But when you start dealing with her on a daily basis, and getting into the minute details, like slight class balances, she starts to become much less attractive. Then you start going out again with your buddies, just to test the waters, with a Beta test weekend here, or a halo expansion pack there. Next thing you know, she starting to become a real ***** at home, and you tell her to pack her stuff and leave. But noooooo, she's not leaving. You have a subscription that doesn't run out til next month, so you're stuck with her. Plus, you just knocked her up two months ago and you can't abandon your kid, the guildies would miss you too much. So you stick around for a bit longer, just to do the right thing.

...He's 3 years old now. Maybe you can take the kid with you if you just move out??! Great idea right? The guildies would love to switch over to a new game, plus your new house is pretty pimpin with all these nice toys. But no, your girl keeps buying him ice cream and promising to take him to chuck e cheese with general statements like, "You're not gonna believe the INSANE amount of CRAZY AWESOME RIDICULOUS improvements we're working on for pvp. LOUD NOISES!!!!" So if you take the guildies with you to the new place, they will always be looking back at the old house wondering if mint chocolate chip is sitting in the freezer like she promised it would in October.

So you finally decide enough is enough and instead of moving out, you're going to throw her out, so you put all her stuff out in the driveway by cancelling your subscription and going f2p. But when she shows up that evening, she has two kids with her she adopted that day saying she wants to merge the households together to make a more complete family. The two kids are from the West Coast and they don't get along with your East Coast kid, but it makes you feel more like a unit with more action going on around the house. But you wake up in the middle of the night and realize the fundamentals of the relationship aren't there. Plus your buddy at work has been married to a girl named WoW for 10 years and though he is wifed up and she expects him home right after work every day, at least she shaves downstairs and lets him give her a dirty sanchez on his birthdays. She may be a little old, but she at least knows how to please a man. Kinda awkward he's married to her, since she's your ex, but they have been happy for all these years, so more power to them.

So you haven't been able to leave her, though you're unhappy. Plus you bought her a nice car, a lot of expensive jewelry, and you prepaid on a bawlin vacation this summer, all paid for in cartel packs, so you're pot committed for at least this year to her. But while on the bawlin vacation you get really high and you wake up with a distant memory of an exotic girl taking you for a night on the town with crazy sex. You can't remember her face, but in your cell phone there's a new number logged under the name... Titan.


....i blacked out, what just happened?
GM Hoth Ski Patrol

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
05.30.2013 , 03:38 PM | #44
I'm a roleplayer and I am confused.

BoushhDC's Avatar


BoushhDC
05.30.2013 , 03:46 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Skolops View Post
No commando because our best sorc is better than our best merc. Composition wise, they both fill a similar role and bringing one or the other, based on player skill, is what makes sense rather than bringing one of each.
So despite my statement that "even the best player can only do so much with what they're given" you contend that the only reason you don't bring a merc is that the guy who plays the best merc you have sucks as a player (and by extension, so does everyone else in your guild, even worse, that plays mercs)? Wow. Isn't there some small still voice in the back of your mind whispering that "hey, maybe it's the class?" Don't you see that your assertion that your guild has no good mercs (not good enough to invite to your ranked team) does not support -- in fact contradicts -- your statement that they "are in a good place?" lol

So let's lay it all on the table, and this is all in the context of what we've been discussing thus far, which is ranked. You don't play one, and you don't play with one on your team. You state that you play "against" them. It's only natural that one not want to have a class they fight against to get any better. Therefore, the fact that you state that commandos "are in a good place," in my estimation, translates that you can deal with them fine now (aside perhaps from the occasional nuisance electro-net, et. al.) but if they were better, you might start being challenged by them. You've been relatively straight forward so far, so does that about sum it up?
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved. --Sun Tzu

Skolops's Avatar


Skolops
05.30.2013 , 04:25 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by BoushhDC View Post
So despite my statement that "even the best player can only do so much with what they're given" you contend that the only reason you don't bring a merc is that the guy who plays the best merc you have sucks as a player (and by extension, so does everyone else in your guild, even worse, that plays mercs)? Wow. Isn't there some small still voice in the back of your mind whispering that "hey, maybe it's the class?" Don't you see that your assertion that your guild has no good mercs (not good enough to invite to your ranked team) does not support -- in fact contradicts -- your statement that they "are in a good place?" lol
I never said we do not have any good mercenaries. In fact, we have an extremely good mercenary. However, we have one of the best sorcerers in the entire game, or at least we think so. As I said, it only makes sense to bring either a mercenary or a sorcerer but not both, and given that it makes sense to take the best player at either of the 2 positions.

If you had Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger on your team, the fact that you start Brady doesnt mean that Ben is a bad player. Its just that Brady is better.
El'Skan-Assassin /// Laetrie-Sniper /// Caelie-Slinger /// Fidaeria-Jugg
Armack -Chaetrie -Gaurex -Isdron -Skol'ompara /// Misericordiae -Elnar -Rujko -Sophiya
<I AM LEGEND>
Prophecy of the Five

Mikeieveli's Avatar


Mikeieveli
05.30.2013 , 04:31 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by ciTriChOtshOt View Post
LOL

She looks good at the bar, when you're in walmart and you see the SWTOR cover on the magazine. So you buy her a few drinks, a few months of subscription, just to try her out. Everything seems fine. BUT THEN! Then she wants to move in, you think, "Cool, we can split the bills, plus she helps clean and does most of the cooking, I could get used to this." But when you start dealing with her on a daily basis, and getting into the minute details, like slight class balances, she starts to become much less attractive. Then you start going out again with your buddies, just to test the waters, with a Beta test weekend here, or a halo expansion pack there. Next thing you know, she starting to become a real ***** at home, and you tell her to pack her stuff and leave. But noooooo, she's not leaving. You have a subscription that doesn't run out til next month, so you're stuck with her. Plus, you just knocked her up two months ago and you can't abandon your kid, the guildies would miss you too much. So you stick around for a bit longer, just to do the right thing.

...He's 3 years old now. Maybe you can take the kid with you if you just move out??! Great idea right? The guildies would love to switch over to a new game, plus your new house is pretty pimpin with all these nice toys. But no, your girl keeps buying him ice cream and promising to take him to chuck e cheese with general statements like, "You're not gonna believe the INSANE amount of CRAZY AWESOME RIDICULOUS improvements we're working on for pvp. LOUD NOISES!!!!" So if you take the guildies with you to the new place, they will always be looking back at the old house wondering if mint chocolate chip is sitting in the freezer like she promised it would in October.

So you finally decide enough is enough and instead of moving out, you're going to throw her out, so you put all her stuff out in the driveway by cancelling your subscription and going f2p. But when she shows up that evening, she has two kids with her she adopted that day saying she wants to merge the households together to make a more complete family. The two kids are from the West Coast and they don't get along with your East Coast kid, but it makes you feel more like a unit with more action going on around the house. But you wake up in the middle of the night and realize the fundamentals of the relationship aren't there. Plus your buddy at work has been married to a girl named WoW for 10 years and though he is wifed up and she expects him home right after work every day, at least she shaves downstairs and lets him give her a dirty sanchez on his birthdays. She may be a little old, but she at least knows how to please a man. Kinda awkward he's married to her, since she's your ex, but they have been happy for all these years, so more power to them.

So you haven't been able to leave her, though you're unhappy. Plus you bought her a nice car, a lot of expensive jewelry, and you prepaid on a bawlin vacation this summer, all paid for in cartel packs, so you're pot committed for at least this year to her. But while on the bawlin vacation you get really high and you wake up with a distant memory of an exotic girl taking you for a night on the town with crazy sex. You can't remember her face, but in your cell phone there's a new number logged under the name... Titan.


....i blacked out, what just happened?
Meanwhile this whole time, from moving in to the vacation, she is still blowing the sentinel living in a room in your house! Good summer is good...
Durkheimedes: Fear the Purple and Gold
Hoth Ski Patrol
Pot5

BoushhDC's Avatar


BoushhDC
05.30.2013 , 05:03 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Skolops View Post
I never said we do not have any good mercenaries. In fact, we have an extremely good mercenary. However, we have one of the best sorcerers in the entire game, or at least we think so. As I said, it only makes sense to bring either a mercenary or a sorcerer but not both, and given that it makes sense to take the best player at either of the 2 positions.

If you had Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger on your team, the fact that you start Brady doesnt mean that Ben is a bad player. Its just that Brady is better.
I wrote that , according to you, you do not have a merc good enough to invite to your ranked team. Using your analogy, Ben is on the bench... NOT PLAYING... and neither are the mercs/commandos, who are paying the same $15/month, and that is definitively NOT a good place... not for them, at least. *That* is the point.

Additionally, since you didn't address my second observation, I'll take your silence on the matter as assent. Or perhaps you didn't see it since it was added 30 seconds after the initial post? Either way, In final summation, I suspect you don't want what is "good" for commandos/mercs... you want what is best for you as an opponent (by definition, you are opposed). While it's only natural to feel that way, it is not a valid argument against the OPs points, especially when presented with an entirely different motive. Again, people who play mercs/commandos are paying the same $15 per month that others are. They're just as entitled to quality game-play and a fun experience as everyone else.
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved. --Sun Tzu

Skolops's Avatar


Skolops
05.30.2013 , 05:21 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by BoushhDC View Post
I wrote that , according to you, you do not have a merc good enough to invite to your ranked team. Using your analogy, Ben is on the bench... NOT PLAYING... and neither are the mercs/commandos, who are paying the same $15/month, and that is definitively NOT a good place... not for them, at least. *That* is the point.
Do we agree that smash is in a good place? Id think so. That doesnt make sentinels bad because every guild has sentinels "on the bench."

What it comes down to is that a good ranked compositon these days, at least with the meta in pot5, includes EITHER a merc or a sorc. When you have a sorc you would put in the top 3, your merc is gonna get left on the bench, even if hes in the top 5.

On top of this, other top guilds on our server do bring mercs/commandos, either almost always or often. There are only 8 spots. Trying to paint my words as demonstrating that mercs are no good in ranked is like saying that sentinels are no good because youd rather have a gunslinger instead of a third smash. There are only so many spots per role and certain set roles you must have.
El'Skan-Assassin /// Laetrie-Sniper /// Caelie-Slinger /// Fidaeria-Jugg
Armack -Chaetrie -Gaurex -Isdron -Skol'ompara /// Misericordiae -Elnar -Rujko -Sophiya
<I AM LEGEND>
Prophecy of the Five

BoushhDC's Avatar


BoushhDC
05.30.2013 , 05:26 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Skolops View Post
Do we agree that smash is in a good place? Id think so. That doesnt make sentinels bad because every guild has sentinels "on the bench."

What it comes down to is that a good ranked compositon these days, at least with the meta in pot5, includes EITHER a merc or a sorc. When you have a sorc you would put in the top 3, your merc is gonna get left on the bench, even if hes in the top 5.

On top of this, other top guilds on our server do bring mercs/commandos, either almost always or often. There are only 8 spots. Trying to paint my words as demonstrating that mercs are no good in ranked is like saying that sentinels are no good because youd rather have a gunslinger instead of a third smash. There are only so many spots per role and certain set roles you must have.
Third smash? So who are delivering the first two? As you point out, there are 8 spots. There also happen to be 8 classes. Which are being excluded and which are being doubled (or tripled) up on?
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved. --Sun Tzu