Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Suggestions that will partly fix operatives dps problems without making them op.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Imperial Agent > Operative
Suggestions that will partly fix operatives dps problems without making them op.

Syberduh's Avatar


Syberduh
05.28.2013 , 12:58 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
DPS isn't the main problem, it's more that Concealment relies too heavily on stealth, and both specs are too squishy for what's effectively a melee class.
This x100. Compare our damage mitigation with that of a deception 'sin or a marauder. Not only do both have a passive 30% reduction to AOE damage taken, both have up-as-often-as-not 25%/20% damage reduction. It's not like these are oh-**** abilities -- these are "entering combat might as well turn this on" abilities.

That alone disqualifies dps ops from serious pvp. They take literally twice as much damage from lolsmash.
Ushanev Syberjugg<Illegal Test Kitchen>
Because chicks dig orange overcoats and guys who don't die.
And streams. Chicks totally dig streams. I mean, right guys? They do, right?

RougeBeaver's Avatar


RougeBeaver
05.28.2013 , 01:13 PM | #12
Energy management. Though it's certainly improved in 2.0 with the changes to alacrity and pugnacity/stim boost as well as a baseline +1 energy tic passive...Not to mention a small energy refund with Round Two/Rolling Punches...We STILL fall behind most every other dps in the game when it comes to solid, sustained dps. I'm talking about Scrapper/Concealment. Dirty Fighting is great.

You look at a good Sentinel, Commando, Gunslinger, they can continuously dish out high dps and have excellent energy management at the same time. Commando might need to slow down from time to time to allow ammo to tic back up, but not as often as Scoundrel...and, unlike Commando, Scrapper truly suffers for a good 15+ seconds waiting for that slow energy tic.

And yes, we're still far too dependent on stealth. I applaud the devs for designing the encounters in Scum and Villainy around this, as not all of them have an obnoxious instant AoE that pops a scoundrel right back out of stealth and royally screws our opener. (Except Thrasher, who does.)

How about making us immune to damage with Sneak? (Only in stealth.)

Also can Cool Head/Adrenaline Probe please stop breaking stealth already? It makes no sense. Please? Please? Pretty pleeease?
The only true profit in this galaxy is freedom.

Jayshames's Avatar


Jayshames
05.28.2013 , 01:23 PM | #13
Concealment relies heavily on stealth, in PvP there is far too much AoE/DoTs that stop Operatives being able to stealth and be effective.

The spec its self is always going to cause problems. If you made it any stealthier you're only going to get (insert word of choice to describe cry babies) asking for nerfs and complaining they are OP.
SCOTLAND

RyanReagan's Avatar


RyanReagan
05.29.2013 , 03:34 PM | #14
Here's some interesting ones.

1. Hidden Strike+Acid Blade = Auto-Crit. And something similar at the top of Lethality. If they think that is too OP, then only make it auto-crit if the acid blade dot doesn't already exist.
2. Immunte to AoE Taunt and and AoE CC while stealthed.
3. Able to stealth if no enemy has LoS. (Might be pretty OP)
4. Force Cloak cooldown shortens for each DoT crit.
C.K. <Infinite Darkness> S.N. <Infinite Darkness> K.R. <Infinite Darkness> C.K. <Infinite Darkness>

Warforever's Avatar


Warforever
05.31.2013 , 09:45 AM | #15
All great suggestions! My main is a sorc. But fell in love with the op. But in WZ I get killed faster than my sorc does!!! ***? DEVs if you've seen these posts can you please respond if any c improvements will be made?

Fallenturtle's Avatar


Fallenturtle
05.31.2013 , 01:58 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Warforever View Post
All great suggestions! My main is a sorc. But fell in love with the op. But in WZ I get killed faster than my sorc does!!! ***? DEVs if you've seen these posts can you please respond if any c improvements will be made?
They wont respond to these posts.. It's obvious they only care about certain classes and don't care about how pvp is.. Their big plan is "oh wait til 2.4!" but to be honest, a lot of people would have already cancelled by then..
The Drakenhoff Legacy.
<Assimilationr>/<Jedi Covenant>
In Domus De Aurum Et Ossuim Resistance is futile.

Gondolindhrim's Avatar


Gondolindhrim
05.31.2013 , 04:10 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by RyanReagan View Post
Here's some interesting ones.

1. Hidden Strike+Acid Blade = Auto-Crit. And something similar at the top of Lethality. If they think that is too OP, then only make it auto-crit if the acid blade dot doesn't already exist.
2. Immunte to AoE Taunt and and AoE CC while stealthed.
3. Able to stealth if no enemy has LoS. (Might be pretty OP)
4. Force Cloak cooldown shortens for each DoT crit.
1. While this would certainly be nice, I would be content with increasing the magnitude of Concealed Attacks (make it 10/20 or 15/30 if feeling generous). An auto-crit would devalue Concealed Attacks, or force a redesign, so I think the devs would be less reluctant to simply buff it. While we're at it, Waylay could use some love (or even better, roll it into the base Backstab and replace it with a new talent, more on this in a moment..).

2. I'd like to take this a step further. This was suggested by someone else in a thread on the Scoundrel forum, but I thought it was an interesting idea and worth re-posting here: What if our stealth was not broken by AoE damage?
We'd still take damage from abilities like Force in Balance and Mortar Volley, but we'd remain in stealth until spotted and directly attacked. This would also increase the tactical value of Stealth Scan, as it would be the only GTAOE capable of popping Concealment Operatives out of stealth. This could be rolled into Shadow Operative Elite.

3. I've been thinking of ways to allow Concealment Operatives to re-stealth without dropping combat, too. I'm not sure if they have the tech to tie it to LOS, but I considered allowing us to re-stealth after a successful kill that we contributed to. Of course, this could be "exploited" by spreading dots and spamming Frag Grenade, allowing you to frequently stealth out in combat, and I'm not sure how to solve that. I thought about Killing Blows, but that does not seem ideal, either... maybe a proc that allows Hidden Strike to be used out of stealth whenever you get a kill?
This could replace Waylay.

4. I like this. Given how reliant Concealment Operatives are on Stealth, it'd be nice if there was a way to knock a little extra time off the Cloaking Screen cooldown. Perhaps a simple -1s on incoming damage of any kind? May have to be limited to proc every X second to make it balanced, but there's potential here. A replacement for Revitalizers, perhaps?

In addition, I would not mind getting the 30% AoE damage reduction Assassins get from Fade added to our Ghost skill. Fade currently has 3 benefits, while Ghost has 2, so I think this would be balanced (I'd be fine with a different but equivalent survivability buff too if copying the Assassin one is deemed too unimaginative).

Thoughts?
Rheiya, Guardian | Adelynn, Sage | Fyrellis, Sentinel | Lyell, Gunslinger | Bao-der, Vanguard | Kayleen, Shadow | Hailey, Commando
Syeeda, Operative | Circumspectus, Sniper | Freiya, Juggernaut | Zeyus, Marauder
FrostclawNightmare LandsThe Red Eclipse

ArchArcher's Avatar


ArchArcher
06.01.2013 , 12:21 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
In addition to survivability buffs, Concealment needs some kind of mechanic that decreases stealth reliance in PvP. Perhaps something like if an enemy dies and you've contributed to killing it, you get a proc that lets you re-stealth even if in combat, or use Hidden Strike without the stealth requirement.
You might be onto something right there, Bioware over here please, look, look !

Qaoz's Avatar


Qaoz
06.01.2013 , 05:10 PM | #19
Wouldn't that make them more stealth reliant, though?

Anyway, I wish Lethality had a way to generate TA stacks outside of using Hidden Strike and Shiv. Perhaps a chance to generate a TA stack on DoT crits or something. It feels clunky that we have to stay within 4 meters of our target when all our spec abilities have 10-meter ranges or more.
If only I'd hit spacebar more often...

Gondolindhrim's Avatar


Gondolindhrim
06.02.2013 , 03:23 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Qaoz View Post
Wouldn't that make them more stealth reliant, though?
One of the main reasons for the stealth reliance is Hidden Strike. Allowing its use without the stealth requirement after a successful kill (or another trigger, could be anything as long as it's not too OP) would absolutely reduce stealth reliance. Allowing Stealth to be used in combat after a successful kill would not reduce stealth reliance, but would make it less of a problem.

Quote: Originally Posted by Qaoz View Post
Anyway, I wish Lethality had a way to generate TA stacks outside of using Hidden Strike and Shiv. Perhaps a chance to generate a TA stack on DoT crits or something. It feels clunky that we have to stay within 4 meters of our target when all our spec abilities have 10-meter ranges or more.
To be honest, Lethality would be OP if we could generate even more TA stacks. Cull already makes up nearly half of Lethality's damage, even more would require nerfs in other areas to make it balanced. I think we just have to accept that we are a melee class with limited ranged ability (as opposed to PTs who are fine at 10m).
Rheiya, Guardian | Adelynn, Sage | Fyrellis, Sentinel | Lyell, Gunslinger | Bao-der, Vanguard | Kayleen, Shadow | Hailey, Commando
Syeeda, Operative | Circumspectus, Sniper | Freiya, Juggernaut | Zeyus, Marauder
FrostclawNightmare LandsThe Red Eclipse