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So.. Account Wide Datacrons

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PetFish's Avatar


PetFish
05.26.2013 , 06:38 PM | #321
Quote: Originally Posted by Qaoz View Post
Give one good reason why every character should have to click the datacrons. One GOOD reason.
Datacrons are consumables just like stims and no other character gets the benefit from any consumable any other character uses just like no other character should get the benefit from a consumed Datacron.

I'm expecting you'll probably go "straw man" or "moving goal posts" to invalidate this reason in order to make it not fit your definition of what a "good reason" is.
D'alari'ia - Sage | Balthaza'ar - Gunslinger | V'alexi'ia - Guardian
Maligna'ar - Commando | N'althaeni'ia - Scoundrel | Palada'ar - Vanguard | C'alystri'ia - Sentinel
T'alari'ia - Marauder | Xalava'ar - PowerTech | F'alconi'ia - Assassin
Halona'ar - Sniper | Q'aldoni'ia - Operative | Kalyntha'ar - Sorcerer | Galvana'ar - Juggernaut

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
05.26.2013 , 06:39 PM | #322
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
...

Handing things to people for free promotes laziness.

...
You are 100% correct. That is exactly how I view EVERY legacy unlock. (Other than the fact that they're not really free )

I view them "earned" laziness. It's a perk. I've played the game for x hours. Done y things. Obtained z legacy. This allows me to be "lazy" and skip over things rather than doing the very same things again and again.

From where I sit, this the reason why legacy exists.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
05.26.2013 , 06:42 PM | #323
Quote: Originally Posted by PetFish View Post
Datacrons are consumables just like stims and no other character gets the benefit from any consumable any other character uses just like no other character should get the benefit from a consumed Datacron.

...
Well, the +5% buffs gotten from legacy are also like consumables. They're good for 30 minutes, and you have to keep refreshing them. In fact, they're exactly like a reusable biochem stim.

AND, once you've unlocked a +5% class buff, it's available to all characters.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.26.2013 , 06:42 PM | #324
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
However, the difference in degree is so remarkably vast, that it isn't going to convince anyone that isn't already on your side.

Let me rephrase. When you made the "slippery slope" argument, I could see your point. It seems as though you feel that the more "laziness" features are added to the game, the more demands will be made by lazy players, and it will eventually wind up with nothing left to do but spend cartel coins on unlocks.

I can follow this argument. In my personal estimation (and this is just opinion of course) the datacron unlock falls well within the current realm of what the devs have already put into the game, and will not, in fact, lead down that garden path you are worried about.

But when you talk about "unlocking an instant level 55 toon" it actually fights against your position. PetFish was snidely commenting on the misuse of the "Straw Man Argument", but it works in this sense.

It is defined as: "To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position"

I'm pretty sure that NOBODY in this thread that is in favor of a legacy datacron unlock is ALSO in favor of an instant-level-55 unlock. These two things are "superficially similar yet unequivalent"

I certainly don't want the instant level 55. I find the idea abhorrent. And yet, I am in favor of the legecay datacron unlock as laid out in an earlier post of mine.

Can you see that these two things are different enough that it is possible to want one, and not the other?
I recognize that it is possible to want one and not the other, just as it is possible to want the legacy wide datacron unlocks and not the ability to purchase class buffs unlocks. Where you and I differ is in the reasoning for being able to want one and not the other. You see it as a matter of degree and I see it as more of a case of "what I want is acceptable and necessary, but if I don't want it, no one else is can have what they want."

We've seen this time and time again, in the argument that "datacron hunting is boring and just a timesink" from many of those wanting the legacy wide datacrons, but those same people argue that something else that others find boring or annoying is fun and so should not available as an unlock.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.26.2013 , 06:47 PM | #325
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
You are 100% correct. That is exactly how I view EVERY legacy unlock. (Other than the fact that they're not really free )

I view them "earned" laziness. It's a perk. I've played the game for x hours. Done y things. Obtained z legacy. This allows me to be "lazy" and skip over things rather than doing the very same things again and again.

From where I sit, this the reason why legacy exists.
See? We've already started down the "slippery slope" with what BW added already. We've got all the legacy perks they've already added to the game, and here we are in a thread started by someone demanding another because they "earned the right to be lazy".

Remember that great children's book, "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie..."? Sound familiar?

As I said before where does it end?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.26.2013 , 06:50 PM | #326
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Well, the +5% buffs gotten from legacy are also like consumables. They're good for 30 minutes, and you have to keep refreshing them. In fact, they're exactly like a reusable biochem stim.

AND, once you've unlocked a +5% class buff, it's available to all characters.
Except that the 5% percent class buff is NOTHING like a consumable. Does it disappear after application? No. It may be a timed buff, but it not a consumable.

You want to say they are like a reusable biochem stim? That may be, but just because my biochem gunslinger has a reusable stim, does not mean my warrior can use it, or gain the benefit when my ginslinger uses it.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
05.26.2013 , 06:52 PM | #327
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Except that the 5% percent class buff is NOTHING like a consumable. Does it disappear after application? No. It may be a timed buff, but it not a consumable.
PetFish was claiming that the reason NOT to include a legacy datacron unlock is that they're like consumables and consumables only affect on character at a time.

I was merely offering a counter argument to his position.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
05.26.2013 , 06:55 PM | #328
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
See? We've already started down the "slippery slope" with what BW added already. We've got all the legacy perks they've already added to the game, and here we are in a thread started by someone demanding another because they "earned the right to be lazy".

Remember that great children's book, "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie..."? Sound familiar?

As I said before where does it end?
Remember, I do understand your position about the slippery slope.

I also spoke partially in jest. If I were to type /played on all my toons and add them up, I think anyone would be hard-pressed to call me a "lazy player"

But it is true, that the legacy unlocks I've gotten so far allowed me to skip over content that I had already done on my first character. It could be argued that this is a good thing. In a game as alt-friendly as SWTOR, I would say it is. It actually encouraged me to make alts and try the different storylines because I didn't have to redo the same things over and over again.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
05.26.2013 , 07:08 PM | #329
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
...

We've seen this time and time again, in the argument that "datacron hunting is boring and just a timesink" from many of those wanting the legacy wide datacrons, but those same people argue that something else that others find boring or annoying is fun and so should not available as an unlock.
Are you saying that the primary reason you argue against the legacy datacron unlock is that the people asking for it are being hypocritical, so you want to fight against it just out of principle?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.26.2013 , 07:15 PM | #330
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Are you saying that the primary reason you argue against the legacy datacron unlock is that the people asking for it are being hypocritical, so you want to fight against it just out of principle?
No. Just pointing out that there are different reasons for seeing legacy wide datacron unlocks as different than certain other unlocks, and that the most common is the "I want this so I should be able to have it, but I don't want that."