This game needs a combat log/dmg meter tool

Someone who's that out-of-whack with their gameplay isn't any more likely to seriously improve just because you link a list of DPS numbers and tell them "You suck, I'm good".

You'd probably get the same results from just saying in pchat: "This person's DPS is terrible, because they're doing X, Y, Z things wrong. We should votekick them and get another DPS". That will leave just as stinging an impression if you're determined to chastise other people into playing better.

You could also try taking the time to whisper them and explain the problems, if your concern about their improvement or lack thereof is real. Posting a string of numbers and pointing out they're at the bottom doesn't really do much beyond humiliate them to satisfy your thirst for ego and/or vengeance.

You're not "forced" to do anything, BioWare doesn't mandate community service from you. Don't PUG with total strangers if you don't want to run into inexperienced players.

BioWare can do certain things to "protect" experienced players — for example, they could implement a +100 bonus to primary stat rolls. That would stop ninjas cold, whether they're doing it out of ignorance or deliberate selfishness.

BioWare can't do much to "protect" your super-skilled butt from inexperienced players because there's too many variables and judgment calls to make for an automated system to handle. All an in-game damage meter would do is over-emphasize one aspect of play and create an entirely new breed of terrible, oblivious player who now defends themself behind a parse number even when they're playing terribly from a practical standpoint.

Then we'd get threads complaining about all the terrible players in PUGs who tunnel the boss, ignore mechanics, and defend themselves with a Recount link when criticized. The paradise you're dreaming of would not actually be what you get out of this change.

Ye .. but in WoW with recount you know what is wrong simply by looking at data.
Here without even combat log to look at you can only guess.

I was an officer in a raiding guild in wow and recount was a tool to do my job. By analyzing recount data i could say who made what mistakes and start explainnig to that guy what he did wrong and what he needs to change and how.
Here? You can only guess.

But thats for guild raids.
In pugs then i couldnt care less about teaching ppl how they should play - they never listen anyway. Only thing i care is that when i play 55 fp pug then i want to get it done in shortest possible time and without any wipes.
And if someone is cousing wipes then i want to know about it and deal with it. If they listen to other ppl explanations then cool, if not - and they usually dont - then vote kick.

Stop with your complaining that recount is a elitist thingie to brag - recount is a tool to make your raids better. An extreamly usefull tool.
Sure some ppl would use it here to brag. But most would use it to improve skills of themselves and others - becouse this is how it works in WoW for years and i dont see any reason why it should work differently here.

Your policy of forbidding something becouse someone could use it wrong is a an idiocy. The same with hammer for example - i can be used to kill if you hit someone with it strong enough. Shall they make sale of all kinds of hammers forbidden?

Here, you have 3rd-party parsers and websites which will provide exactly that via combat logging. If you're in a "raiding guild" it should be no issue to set that up.

If you want to get your FP "over as fast possible", don't use a PUG system which gives you random strangers with no quality filtering. Find people you trust and group with them each day.

If you had SWTOR Recount, you'd still get the same people in your random FP and, you'd still have the same solutions to deal with them. It is not difficult to figure out which person out of 4 people is causing the problem in a Flashpoint, and Recount won't prevent them from showing up in your group to begin with. Once they're in the FP, you gain little to nothing from parsing them vs. just observing critical gameplay failures.

Again, you have these tools already via combat logging and 3rd-party tools — exactly like WoW, since Recount is not officially supported. Your raids are not deprived. And there's little to no real benefit adding it to Story Mode PUG stuff where it's mechanical and tactical failures that will destroy you far more often than DPS pulling subpar numbers.

You can have an in-game program which says, "Dark-sith'lord-maulx wiped by standing in Obvious Glowing Circle B". That would be like "Tactical Recount". Except you can just see that's what's happening anyway. You're trying to automate a process that doesn't need automation.

The tools are already there. Use Torparse. You can make an open group and anyone can join you or you can invite to your group, even set assistants to invite people. All their info is there with 1 click uploading to the Torparse site. You don't even need a leader key or raid key like mox, just log in, and make your group or join one that a guildy/groupie set up.

The stuff you are asking for is already in game for the guilds/groups that want to use it, it's just not called Recount. It is voluntary, which is a good thing.

No. It will birth elitists and many will be barred based on how hard they hit or how much they heal.

NO!

This game does not need a combat tool. We do not need some kids running around bragging about their dps, knowing nothing about tactics.

This works great http://www.torparse.com/client

My guild uses it a lot - if you set up a group in the client you can see stats for all raid members.

But yeah, I would like something like it integrated in the game. It's not about bragging rights, but it IS about identifying why groups sometimes fail repeatedly at something. It can be hard to tell in flashpoints for instance which DPS is failing if DPS is low. Failing over and over isn't fun for anyone.

This is what I'm confused on... the game already has one. Why are people acting like one doesn't exist.

Unless you're arguing for an in-game, involuntarily meter (meaning other people in your group can record your numbers).

I don't see a need for it. PUGs are PUGs... and in guild runs you can make it mandatory to use the meters already available.

So isn't the problem solved?

This argument is split into two sides, the players that want a dps tool and the others that dont want a dps tool. However the reasons to have them are split up into so many micro-reasons that don't add up to much.

Pros
- Show your dps, helps max your rotations or see when/where your dps drops or peaks.

Cons
- None.

That's it ^^^^. All i have read is that "players will kick/nag at others players not doing great dps" This argument is void. You are trying to use a player by player stand point to defend something that has no in game impact. Adding a meter wont "buff" or "nurf" your class. Why be so agents it? Because you, yes you, were that one player in a group that was "CUSSED OUT IN ALL CAPS" or the dps at the bottom of the charts. Don't take away MY DPS meter to make MYSELF better as a dps.

Anyone not waiting a dps meter has not and will not adapt to a change. If it really bothers you that a dps meter is held to be the skill of a player then you have never played or cared about endgame content. IMO the easiest way to fix/add this is to make an option to OPT in to the dps meter

[ ] Join group Damage Meter
[ ] Show damage meter
[ ] Track your Damage with a Damage Meter

Bam, if you want to track dps turn it on, if you dont want to be tracked leave them unchecked. If a ops or party member tell you to turn them on or you are kicked then why be in that group at all or make your own OPS and call the shots.

Think out side the box.

Don't even try this angle.

It doesn't matter what class I'm playing, I'm usually near or at the top if the queue puts me in the Damage role. I'm absolutely not "Nightmare Mode Pro" by any stretch, but I'm completely competent at what I play — certainly good enough to get through Daily Commendation Farming PUG content, which is what people in this thread keep focusing on. I've never been kicked or yelled at for hurting a group as Damage. And I don't constantly run a damage meter, and I don't need one to play "fine".

SWTOR is very easy to play adequately once you either figure out, or are told, your basic rotation and goals with your class and spec. The difference between upgrading that to a "perfect" rotation is not enough to change a Flashpoint or PUG Op from "wipe" to "clear" — unless some people are carrying everyone else on such a razor edge that a few % gets you past. In that case, the problem isn't metering, it's fundamental lack of understanding at a basic level from participants. Meters. Don't. Solve. That.

I came here from WoW, where I had Recount running at all times, everyone had Recount running at all times, Recounts were constantly linked after every boss — and it added nothing significant to most PUG content since everyone just wanted to get through it. At best, you got some back-slapping or abusiveness going around and then everyone forgot and hit the next fight.

Stop harping about "skill". This has nothing to do with skill. This is either:

• Obsessive-compulsive disorder
• Egotism
• Paranoia that you're working with other people who aren't perfect
• Incredible laziness about observing and communicating with the strangers you keep choosing to group with

Slinging derisive insults at people who correctly identify that this game is just fine without a built-in parsing is not helping anything. You're flailing around, trying to justify including a tool the environment doesn't need by attempting to appeal to pride or an illusionary sense of "skill".

If you're so concerned about perfecting your DPS game — and that's all metering yourself does, it perfects rough edges and lets you spot weak points you might miss in certain pulls/phases in all the chaos of fights — there are already 3rd-party tools available to you. Devote your vaunted "skill" to downloading and setting them up.