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Summer of SWTOR

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Groovykool's Avatar


Groovykool
05.25.2013 , 10:08 AM | #541
Summer of UNSUB

Vaerah's Avatar


Vaerah
05.25.2013 , 10:09 AM | #542
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
Ranked isn't moving forward because people aren't playing it. They aren't going to kick off a season if there are only 2 or 3 ranked teams on each server. Perhaps they have a new rank system in store. I can't say for sure.
Another person who confuses cause with effect.

PvP is not being kicked back because there are 2-3 ranked teams on each server but because EA failed to let people form up more teams:

1) No cross server WZs this makes impossible to queue up and find a game fast and so people quickly get tired and leave. WoW implemented cross server battlegrounds like 5 years ago.

2) The whole RWZ gear up concept is flawed. You put competitive gear to require RWZs to be purchased. Too bad the few RWZ guilds are hardly letting someone with Partisan gear in, so anyone willing to play RWZs has to grind regular WZs for weeks or more. This immediately cuts the pool of perspective new RWZ players, once exhausted the current RWZ pool (natural players turnover) you are left with the same few hard cores and that's it.

Yes yes I know, now someone smart will say that their guild even invites level 52 gear players for their RWZ because they are oh-so-skilled.

3) There is specs and gameplay stigma. I enter a WZ (not even talking about RWZ) and I am automatically assumed to be Shadow tank spec and tank gear and automatically shouted to get cobwebs sitting on a node and get 2 medals a WZ.
In regular WZs I can tell them I am infiltration spec and that I am going to guard the node only for some minutes, then I WILL have my share of fun, deal with it.
In RWZ the leader would not even let me join the team, tank spec or die (yes I know blah blah there's your enlightened guild who allows in every spec and actually does RWZs with 5 infiltration shadow, I am sure it's true).
In the best case it's "1 tank specced shadow in, 1 (out of 10 in guild) infiltration in tops, and this only because dude XYZ with class ABC today can't play (else no inf shadows are in), the others queue up and hope".

justandulas's Avatar


justandulas
05.25.2013 , 10:11 AM | #543
Quote: Originally Posted by Ultramecha View Post
What makes you think they don't love their game?
Well, I can tell you that the PVP devs don't love their game, and it shows because there hasn't been any content, or significant pvp content, basically since 1.2. If you are going to work on a game, it should be something that you obsess over. That you want to play all night after work, that you want to play on your day off. The pvp content we've been given and now told to wait til 2.4 sends a very loud message that they aren't passionate about SWTOR's PVP. The PVP team must be just taking EA's money and spending it in vegas every week because nothing ever translates into the game for us. With a single year, I could create 10-20 new warzones so what's BW's pvp team's excuse for only one new wz every 18 months with not a single crumb of content for an expansion? Games where devs love and play their own game around the clock show in the amount of content that's added, because they are adding for themselves too.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken. The force shall free me.
-Darth Justandulas

Screaming_Ziva's Avatar


Screaming_Ziva
05.25.2013 , 10:44 AM | #544
Quote: Originally Posted by Ultramecha View Post
Did you miss the angry mob that was pissed it wasn't 55? Many people like gree.
There seems to be only two types of people on our server that actually like the Gree event:

#1 - People who are getting legacy weapons

#2 - PvP gankers

That's about it.

ForsakenKing's Avatar


ForsakenKing
05.25.2013 , 11:04 AM | #545
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaerah View Post
Another person who confuses cause with effect.

PvP is not being kicked back because there are 2-3 ranked teams on each server but because EA failed to let people form up more teams:

1) No cross server WZs this makes impossible to queue up and find a game fast and so people quickly get tired and leave. WoW implemented cross server battlegrounds like 5 years ago.

2) The whole RWZ gear up concept is flawed. You put competitive gear to require RWZs to be purchased. Too bad the few RWZ guilds are hardly letting someone with Partisan gear in, so anyone willing to play RWZs has to grind regular WZs for weeks or more. This immediately cuts the pool of perspective new RWZ players, once exhausted the current RWZ pool (natural players turnover) you are left with the same few hard cores and that's it.

Yes yes I know, now someone smart will say that their guild even invites level 52 gear players for their RWZ because they are oh-so-skilled.

3) There is specs and gameplay stigma. I enter a WZ (not even talking about RWZ) and I am automatically assumed to be Shadow tank spec and tank gear and automatically shouted to get cobwebs sitting on a node and get 2 medals a WZ.
In regular WZs I can tell them I am infiltration spec and that I am going to guard the node only for some minutes, then I WILL have my share of fun, deal with it.
In RWZ the leader would not even let me join the team, tank spec or die (yes I know blah blah there's your enlightened guild who allows in every spec and actually does RWZs with 5 infiltration shadow, I am sure it's true).
In the best case it's "1 tank specced shadow in, 1 (out of 10 in guild) infiltration in tops, and this only because dude XYZ with class ABC today can't play (else no inf shadows are in), the others queue up and hope".
well you obviously havent tried ranked since at least 2.0.

1)Ranked wzs pop on a regular basis. people want cross so that new teams dont have to face people that have been queing together for months and elite teams from different servers want it so that they can que against each other.

2)Min/Maxed Partisan is all you need to be competitive in ranked WZs and that only takes about a 7-10 for the average person to get if they have a plan. conq is nice but the difference isnt large enough to exclude a person from a ranked match.

3) people are upset at you because you arent playing your roll of guarding the node. You can do that in infiltration now. heck, some teams prefer that so that you can put pressure on their node when they need it. your problem is you say you are going to guard the node and then leaving it. who wants to que up ranked with someone like that?

anyway, i said my peice even though i doubt you will ever read it (lets be honest, i know i wont come back to see if you replied lol)

Ultramecha's Avatar


Ultramecha
05.25.2013 , 11:10 AM | #546
Quote: Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
Well, I can tell you that the PVP devs don't love their game, and it shows because there hasn't been any content, or significant pvp content, basically since 1.2. If you are going to work on a game, it should be something that you obsess over. That you want to play all night after work, that you want to play on your day off. The pvp content we've been given and now told to wait til 2.4 sends a very loud message that they aren't passionate about SWTOR's PVP. The PVP team must be just taking EA's money and spending it in vegas every week because nothing ever translates into the game for us. With a single year, I could create 10-20 new warzones so what's BW's pvp team's excuse for only one new wz every 18 months with not a single crumb of content for an expansion? Games where devs love and play their own game around the clock show in the amount of content that's added, because they are adding for themselves too.
Development time takes longer than you think. Compare to wow, which may get one or two new warzones a year

Cupelixx's Avatar


Cupelixx
05.25.2013 , 11:20 AM | #547
Quote: Originally Posted by Ultramecha View Post
What makes you think they don't love their game?
All you have to do is look at the state the game is in and the nature of the updates happening to see it. It's obvious that they don't love their game, take no pride in their game, and don't care about their game. If any of those 3 scenarios were true, we wouldn't have bugs go unfixed for months. If any of those 3 scenarios were true, they wouldn't be pi----- in our faces by giving us these blasé, uninspired game updates in a wrapper of "look how awesome these updates are!".

They love the money way more than they love this game, that much is clear. The hood clipping bug on the Saber Marshal's Robe has existed since game update 1.2. We're going on to game update 2.2 now and there is no fix in sight. They won't, because taking an hour away from development of cash shop items would be unacceptable.

They come to the forums now posting stuff like "the game is healthier than ever, everything is going great" and "our new policy is more transparency". If the game is doing so well, why do I already see a massive drop in primetime players on the Harbinger? If the game is doing awesome, why can't they allocate development resources to things players have asked for since beta? Why can't they allocate more resources to fixing bugs and polishing the game?
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justandulas's Avatar


justandulas
05.25.2013 , 11:23 AM | #548
Quote: Originally Posted by Ultramecha View Post
Development time takes longer than you think. Compare to wow, which may get one or two new warzones a year
Why is that though? The reason is takes so long with WoW is because their engine is old and isn't coded well. One of the benefits of the hero engine is that it supposedly is so easy to develop for. So, what's the hold up? I literally think if BW flew me out for a single week I could develop half a dozen new well balanced WZ's, for free, so why do we PVP subs have to wait a year in between wz's, including being ignored throughout an expansion, when they have a team being paid the big bucks to make PVP content?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken. The force shall free me.
-Darth Justandulas

schmel's Avatar


schmel
05.25.2013 , 11:26 AM | #549
Quote: Originally Posted by Aramyth View Post
It shouldn't BE a small development team. It's Bioware and EA. This is a AAA MMORPG. They should be making a decent amount of money now with F2P and subscriptions and gouging everyone on the CM for dyes, new hair styles etc.

If Sqaure Enix can completely REMAKE FFXIV in about two years, then what the hell is our development team doing?
THIS. Exactly this! This isn't some indie game from a small start-up. If you figure that the game has about 500,000 subs, who pay $150 a year in subscriptions (we're going with some very rough estimates here), that would be $75million from subscribers alone. That's quite a lot of money. The average salary for a game developer is $84,337 (http://www.gamespot.com/news/average...-84000-6406397). But we don't want average developers. We want really good developers. So lets pay them, say, $120,000, or approximately 142% the going rate for developers. At that salary, a staff of 300 developers (my recollection is that, at release, the game had 400?) will cost $36million. That would leave $39million to maintain and upgrade the servers, pay the utilities on their buildings, etc.

Not that much, I know, but all of that is BEFORE you take into account the CM. Take the huge influx of cash from the CM and all of a sudden a staff of 300 developers (the estimates are, of course, rough. they're also deliberately exaggerated. I think a staff of 200 might be enough. But I use 300 because if we can afford 300, we can definitely afford 200) seems pretty feasible, while still netting Bioware a comfy profit. I wonder if Bioware is reinvesting in the game at all right now? If they want to take their cash and go, that is certainly their right, but I would definitely be saddened and disappointed by it (and I genuinely don't think it would be a good business decision either).

Jandi's Avatar


Jandi
05.25.2013 , 11:34 AM | #550
Quote: Originally Posted by schmel View Post
THIS. Exactly this! This isn't some indie game from a small start-up. If you figure that the game has about 500,000 subs, who pay $150 a year in subscriptions (we're going with some very rough estimates here), that would be $75million from subscribers alone. That's quite a lot of money. The average salary for a game developer is $84,337 (http://www.gamespot.com/news/average...-84000-6406397). But we don't want average developers. We want really good developers. So lets pay them, say, $120,000, or approximately 142% the going rate for developers. At that salary, a staff of 300 developers (my recollection is that, at release, the game had 400?) will cost $36million. That would leave $39million to maintain and upgrade the servers, pay the utilities on their buildings, etc.

Not that much, I know, but all of that is BEFORE you take into account the CM. Take the huge influx of cash from the CM and all of a sudden a staff of 300 developers (the estimates are, of course, rough. they're also deliberately exaggerated. I think a staff of 200 might be enough. But I use 300 because if we can afford 300, we can definitely afford 200) seems pretty feasible, while still netting Bioware a comfy profit. I wonder if Bioware is reinvesting in the game at all right now? If they want to take their cash and go, that is certainly their right, but I would definitely be saddened and disappointed by it (and I genuinely don't think it would be a good business decision either).
Not a single cent of profit is put back into the game, It's how EA operates. You can find the evidence to support this claim easy enough if you choose to. It's how every single game under EA works, don't delude yourself into thinking SWTOR is somehow a special case. They operate the gaem at a bare minimum with no plans whatsoever in place to increase it's funding, ever.