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ssfish's Avatar


ssfish
05.24.2013 , 07:21 AM | #121
I will concede this one to Ark. I cannot seem to catch my luck during the first 5-6 minutes of my parses.

Lift - Juggernaut - 4/36/6 Vengeance - 2765
Lift - Juggernaut Manaca - Sentinel Macana - Sorc
Bije - Operative Lifting - Guardian Bijje - Sniper

arkitip's Avatar


arkitip
05.24.2013 , 07:37 AM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by ssfish View Post
I will concede this one to Ark. I cannot seem to catch my luck during the first 5-6 minutes of my parses.

Lift - Juggernaut - 4/36/6 Vengeance - 2765
I haven't been able to replicate it since and I'm better geared now. Ravage was almost 25% of my damage that run LOL

I think between my parse and the run of 2900 you have in that 1 parse we've shown the potential for Vengeance Juggs if they have some RNG luck. Realistically though I think we're typically a 2750ish DPS class.

ssfish's Avatar


ssfish
05.24.2013 , 08:00 AM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by arkitip View Post
I haven't been able to replicate it since and I'm better geared now. Ravage was almost 25% of my damage that run LOL

I think between my parse and the run of 2900 you have in that 1 parse we've shown the potential for Vengeance Juggs if they have some RNG luck. Realistically though I think we're typically a 2750ish DPS class.
Yup. I'm pretty sure I was sitting at 26% in that 2900 parse. I've managed to hit just under 2900 only once since then, but I've taken to doing these shorter parses to try and chase you here. I think I'm done until my next gear upgrade, though, since at this point it's just a matter of who gets the better run of proc/crit luck.
Lift - Juggernaut Manaca - Sentinel Macana - Sorc
Bije - Operative Lifting - Guardian Bijje - Sniper

MisterMuse's Avatar


MisterMuse
05.24.2013 , 08:40 AM | #124
You Juggs/Guardian getting the Sentinel 2 piece set bonus?

arkitip's Avatar


arkitip
05.24.2013 , 12:40 PM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by MisterMuse View Post
You Juggs/Guardian getting the Sentinel 2 piece set bonus?
Yes.

The thing Vengeance/Vigilance spec players need to understand is how reliant on RNG they are to produce the really big parses.

If you proc Ravage at it's expected rate of 30%, it will typically account for 20% of your damage, and your bleeds will account for 19-20%. This is going to put you in the 2700s if you're BiS or fairly close to it. You'll have plenty of runs where Ravage doesn't proc@a 30% clip and makes up 18-19% of your damage. This will be a 2600ish parse.

In my 2865 parse Ravage procced at nearly a 41% rate. Had it procced at the normal rate I would have lost 100-150 DPS which is obviously a huge swing. I'm sure with 2 UW relics (of which I'll need 3 tokens now because the damage proc relic I bought just isn't proccing enough to give me the returns I expected) I can replicate 2800 more frequently, but my current opinion is that the spec is a 2700-2800 spec when played and geared optimally.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
05.24.2013 , 09:20 PM | #126
I was going to mention that my 2737 gunnery score earlier in the thread isn't up there but it's nothing new.

Instead I'm going to troll the merc/mando community by posting assault parses using just 5 attacks.

Hotwired - Commando - Assault 5/8/33 - 2702.9

http://www.torparse.com/a/248285/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

It's about 100dps off sinking the highest Gunnery parse posted if an armour debuff is factored in.

I don't have a 72 MH which is important for ranged attacks (80% of the damage) and have 7x69 mods so I reckon its doable.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

Arch_Angel_Gabe's Avatar


Arch_Angel_Gabe
05.24.2013 , 11:08 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
I was going to mention that my 2737 gunnery score earlier in the thread isn't up there but it's nothing new.

Instead I'm going to troll the merc/mando community by posting assault parses using just 5 attacks.

Hotwired - Commando - Assault 5/8/33 - 2702.9

http://www.torparse.com/a/248285/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

It's about 100dps off sinking the highest Gunnery parse posted if an armour debuff is factored in.

I don't have a 72 MH which is important for ranged attacks (80% of the damage) and have 7x69 mods so I reckon its doable.
I noticed abnormally high critical percentage from your bread and butter ability (CB). Based on your other abilities, I'd say your crit is between 29-31% (feel free to state what it is), which means CB received an extra 10% crit from RNG. According to my calculations, that abnormally high crit percentage 70% versus 60% resulted in around 200 more DPS. The interesting thing about classes where a single ability makes up the majority of their damage, means that RNG on that ability alone can have huge swings upon their overall DPS. Probably similar to what the Jug/Guard's were talking about with master strike.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Instead I'm going to troll the merc/mando community by posting assault parses using just 5 attacks.
Well, you did succeed... Problem is, the parses you did with all the abilities were lower than the one you did with these 5 abillities. I don't think you really intended to limit yourself, just so turns out those 5 abilities are all you really need. I tested assault last night, unbufffed and compared it to gunnery. I found the damage was more consistent with fewer abilities (the ones you used)... It was more... steady, so to speak. It also only slightly trailed gunnery. Definitely a viable spec, but I don't like it.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
05.24.2013 , 11:46 PM | #128
Yes, stripping assault down and focusing on highly talented and buffed attacks only causes it to improve immensely.

My crit rate is 36.57 plus 30% double stacked set bonus.

It is not a significantly hot parse at 70% crit vs the tooltip value of 66,57% on that specific attack.

Difference of less than 5%

But yes, anything affecting the major attack on which everything revolves and which has exceptional critical stats will cause the whole parse to vary significantly.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

Arch_Angel_Gabe's Avatar


Arch_Angel_Gabe
05.24.2013 , 11:56 PM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Yes, stripping assault down and focusing on highly talented and buffed attacks only causes it to improve immensely.

My crit rate is 36.57 plus 30% double stacked set bonus.

It is not a significantly hot parse at 70% crit vs the tooltip value of 66,57% on that specific attack.

Difference of less than 5%

But yes, anything affecting the major attack on which everything revolves and which has exceptional critical stats will cause the whole parse to vary significantly.
Wow, that is very high crit. It might cause me to re-think crit rating. I am guessing with base crit that high, that you are also stacking surge even at a slight expense to accuracy? (you missed a few attacks) Be interesting if you would post your stats. I never thought a 36% base crit would be all that great, especially with all the haters right now hating on crit. I know auto-crit classes have a reason to hate it, which is perfectly logical, but maybe I'll have to rethink this a bit.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
05.25.2013 , 12:06 AM | #130
No. You should be stacking power unless you're planning on following me and given the downsides of Assault I'm not advising that.

Assault has +30% crit damage on everything I'm using except ENet and default attack.

92.86% of my damage output is from attacks which crit for over 200% damage. My crit multi is at 72.3 which combined with +30% talent is 202.3% damage on crit.

Gunnery has +30% crit damage on Full Auto only which is about 30-35% of total damage, stacking for crit and surge will not be beneficial.

Accuracy is 99.33 by accident when I lost some stats in a new ear and I'm musing over increasing it again.

I still have my power mods in inventory for respeccing back to Gunnery because I know the limitations and it's unlikely Assault will see NiM with me.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN