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Concerns About Players Being Suspended

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Concerns About Players Being Suspended
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Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.23.2013 , 12:08 PM | #201
Quote: Originally Posted by tman_ac View Post
That is so wrong. The purpose of legacy gear was always to send over bound mods/hilts/barrels/armorings/enhancements to your alts. Else it would be useless. No one is using the gear cause it looks awesome. (Maybe except of the Gree sabers).

What I did the past months is an exploit as well in your opinion then?

I bought 2 level 10 crystals (+41 stats) from the CM and used it on a toon I leveled up. Once I was done with that char and wanted to level up another one, I sent over the 2 crystals to that one instead of buying another pack of 2 crystals. Every player who has legacy weapons did that. It is a feature that is working as intended.

Now all of a sudden they mark their own feature as an exploit. As I do agree that white crystals shouldn't be spammed and lose it's rare status, you can't ban players just because they use an ingame feature that's working as intended. The failure on this is 100% up to BW, not the players and banning them is the worst action they could take about it.

But lately I am not wondered anymore....
The difference is that you BOUGHT those two crystals and did not just create FREE copies and send the FREE copies to your alts in an attempt to dodge the CC cost to purchase the collections unlock which would have enabled you to create copies on your alts.

curtkram's Avatar


curtkram
05.23.2013 , 12:08 PM | #202
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilora View Post
They changed mechanics.

Prior to 2.1 -- you couldn't duplicate any items.
2.1 introduced Collections -- the entire point is to duplicate items on ONE character.
If you want to have those same items available on other toons, you HAVE to pay a CC fee.

People are using an exploit to get AROUND the CC requirement. It is fairly obvious that this wasn't possible Pre-2.1 -- and the feature that allows it added in 2.1 was built around having you pay CCs to "unlock" it.
what i said was perhaps unclear and your comment doesn't actually address what i intended to communicate (could be my bad).

i don't think the ban was for copying a crystal using collections and then transferring it to an alt, bypassing the CC requirement of the collections unlock. i think the ban was a mistake, where maybe some people who should be banned were, but also a lot of people who should not have been banned were caught in an overly-wide net.

transferring a crystal to an alt may not be intended, but banning someone for that is a bit excessive. i don't think people are going to be banned for that today or in the near future. it's probably unintended, and they may change the mechanic that makes that possible in the future. or they may not. i don't know.

Kilora's Avatar


Kilora
05.23.2013 , 12:14 PM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by curtkram View Post
what i said was perhaps unclear and you're comment doesn't actually address what i intended to communicate (could be my bad).

i don't think the ban was for transferring a crystal from a main to an alt, bypassing the CC requirement of the collections unlock. i think the ban was a mistake, where maybe some people who should be banned were, but also a lot of people who should not have been banned were caught in an overly-wide net.

transferring a crystal to an alt may not be intended, but banning someone for that is a bit excessive. i don't think people are going to be banned for that today or in the near future. it's probably unintended, and they may change the mechanic that makes that possible in the future. or they may not. i don't know.

I think the intended ban was for COPYING them, and sending em off to all of your toons. This is absolutely wrong and I agree that it should be an actionable offense.

However -- doing something you could do Pre-2.1 shouldn't be an issue -- but it does seem like it *may* have been an issue.

The problem is -- 2.1 made it so a completely legitimate feature pre-2.1 can now be used for exploiting the system, and DOES "exploit" the system even if 100% unintended. That is why I'm concerned about what they have done, and why I think there are DEFINITELY some people who were improperly actioned.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
05.23.2013 , 12:15 PM | #204
Quote: Originally Posted by curtkram View Post
i don't think the ban was for transferring a crystal from a main to an alt, bypassing the CC requirement of the collections unlock. i think the ban was a mistake, where maybe some people who should be banned were, but also a lot of people who should not have been banned were caught in an overly-wide net.
I understand this is your takeaway from the discussion across the internet, but I see clear evidence in those same internet channels that your takeaway is not accurate. As you noted earlier.. there is a lot of confusion and conflicting commentary out there right now (that deserves absolute clarity from Bioware). None of us know enough yet to be absolutely sure about thresholds for bans, but it's clear there are one, perhaps two reasons why. And it is prudent for every player to steer wide and clear of those two reasons.
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Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.23.2013 , 12:16 PM | #205
Quote: Originally Posted by curtkram View Post
so anyway, after reading about this from outside sources, i'm pretty convinced the issue has nothing to do with transferring to your toons. if you have an exploit that is limited in nature to the characters of a given account on a single server, it's not really an exploit. you should be able to go ahead and transfer crystals to alts until they change the mechanics. a lot of people were banned because of a mistake.

that's just my opinion and i'm anxiously awaiting a real dev response to clarify.
An EXPLOIT that is limited to a account on a single server is not really an exploit? What kind of logic is that? AN exploit is an EXPLOIT, no matter how far it extends.

If you want your alts to have those crystals, then you can pay the CC's for the collections unlock and do it legitimately.

curtkram's Avatar


curtkram
05.23.2013 , 12:16 PM | #206
i edited my previous statement to include "copying" for clarity and am only posing a new perspective I gained from new information.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
05.23.2013 , 12:17 PM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Shells or not.. the point is the armor was designed to be transfered to other characters in your legacy for other uses.

Now.. about those mods...... please show me one instance of a bind to legacy mod in the game. That would invalidate my statement and validate yours all in one simple transaction.

Until you can provide me with definitive proof that mods were ever meant to be legacy movable, I'll stand by my statement that Bioware implemented moddable legacy gear with a loophole in it that allowed players to take character bound mods (look at the mod.. it says "bound") and move them around. Unintended by design, but a loophole in the design that they never closed.

The fact that people like yourself see no value in a legacy armor or weapon shell other then to use it to move bound mods around your legacy simply demonstrates two things: 1) legacy shells were poorly designed to begin with (and since they predate adaptive armor.. they are antiques) 2) legacy shells were poorly designed to begin with (because they contained a loophole in the bind to character mechanics of mods in the game).

Yep.. legacy gear was poorly designed on multiple levels. But I am sure you disagree, being as they provide you a method to move bound mods around.
I fail to see why they would have BoL mods, when they have BoL empty shells. The only point you can make that could possibly be unintentional is that you can take the pieces out of legacy gear and put them into something else. If you tried to make the case that you could put bound mods into your legacy gear and transfer that piece to an alt (which you already mentioned was fine when rolling an alt), but not be able to pull those pieces out then the design at least somewhat makes sense. But then they can't say that doing this with bound mods that your character never would have used and sending them to a different alt is any different.

Basically, if they only let the toon that put the mods in take them out than I could understand how the current use is unintentional. But I would still be able to put bound mods into legacy gear and would just be forced to use that legacy piece on the alt rather than being able to extract the mods and put them in better looking gear (a much better system).

Your explanation seems to be that BW is the biggest bunch of bunglers on the planet and introduced a gear set to let you move not bound mods to alts in a more roundabout and difficult way for no reason. And then kept putting in new pieces to allow people to continue going around in circles when simply mailing the pieces would have been infinitely quicker. Do you even read what you're writing at this point?
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Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.23.2013 , 12:19 PM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
Umm, what? The only thing you can use legacy gear for IS mods, armorings, enhancements, hilts, and barrels. So your whole post makes no sense. If the mods I am putting in the legacy gear aren't bound to me already, then why do I need the gear to pass it? Please explain.
Do not forget that their also exists the inheritance and birthright gear, usually found as drops. These are also BOL, and are usually ignored as they are far inferior to the orange BOL gear.

tman_ac's Avatar


tman_ac
05.23.2013 , 12:20 PM | #209
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
The difference is that you BOUGHT those two crystals and did not just create FREE copies and send the FREE copies to your alts in an attempt to dodge the CC cost to purchase the collections unlock which would have enabled you to create copies on your alts.
Still, since I own these crystals it is my gosh damn right to send them over to my other toons. If this means it unlocks the collection on that specific char, it is not my fault. I payed for these crystals, so I can send them over to any toon of my desire.

But yeh, making free copies and send over the copies is something that shouldn't be possible. In the end, the collections feature and the legacy gear feature have a huge conflict. And again, not the player's fault, it is BW's fault. Everyone with a little bit of understanding would have spotted that within the first 5 minutes, as I did.
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chuuuuucky's Avatar


chuuuuucky
05.23.2013 , 12:21 PM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Shells or not.. the point is the armor was designed to be transfered to other characters in your legacy for other uses.

Now.. about those mods...... please show me one instance of a bind to legacy mod in the game. That would invalidate my statement and validate yours all in one simple transaction.

Until you can provide me with definitive proof that mods were ever meant to be legacy movable, I'll stand by my statement that Bioware implemented moddable legacy gear with a loophole in it that allowed players to take character bound mods (look at the mod.. it says "bound") and move them around. Unintended by design, but a loophole in the design that they never closed.

The fact that people like yourself see no value in a legacy armor or weapon shell other then to use it to move bound mods around your legacy simply demonstrates two things: 1) legacy shells were poorly designed to begin with (and since they predate adaptive armor.. they are antiques) 2) legacy shells were poorly designed to begin with (because they contained a loophole in the bind to character mechanics of mods in the game).

Yep.. legacy gear was poorly designed on multiple levels. But I am sure you disagree, being as they provide you a method to move bound mods around.

The big irony in the entire discussion here is.. lookie.. lookie...me criticizing something Bioware did (and it's consequences in the new patch) and all the foam at the mouth people who attack me for "only ever defending Bioware on everything" are probably stunned to silence.
Other uses hm? Tell me other uses.
It was not poorly designed or do you really think that Bioware is to stupid to realize beforehand what will happen with a armor which is made to send it to alts?
Players should know what happens to them if they use legacy for sending crystals but a whole developer team is so blind that they don't notice what the player will do if they release a empty armor (what makes it necessary to put in mods to make it usefull) which is also only bound to legacy.
Pathetic.