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[Petition] Buying individual pieces via Collections Menu

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
[Petition] Buying individual pieces via Collections Menu
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ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
05.20.2013 , 08:03 AM | #301
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Bonkurz

DamionSchubert's Avatar


DamionSchubert
05.20.2013 , 10:25 AM | #302 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey, guys, let me give a little background on this decision and how it came to be.

During development of the Collections system, a couple of problems became apparent in terms of how things are architected on the back end of SWTOR. The short form is that making all items in a collection separate items had a lot of nasty side effects. It increased the amount of data storage per character considerably, it increased login times to handle versioning up your character, and it also quintupled the number of things in the collections GUI, making that GUI an unreadable mess. The team working on this feature looked at these problems and decided that the best possible solution to these issues was to consolidate these items into sets.

So, yeah, that's on the design team. I swear, not because we're evil jerk designers, we just kinda failed to fully realize how the feature would end up playing out . We now have a better grasp of the ramifications of this decision, and we're aware of the unhappiness it caused.

We're also aware that using Revan's Mask as an example was a pretty poor call on our part.

We're in the process of evaluating other options that would allow us to give players the functionality that they want, while at the same time address the very real technical and GUI concerns that we faced with our initial architecture of the system. Unfortunately, no option that we come up with is likely to be doable very quickly -- on top of solving the technical problems, we also need to now deal with ensuring anyone who purchases the collected items with the current system end up being correctly credited if we convert something over. As such, I have no ETA for when we will address this.
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Heezdedjim's Avatar


Heezdedjim
05.20.2013 , 10:47 AM | #303
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
During development of the Collections system, a couple of problems became apparent in terms of how things are architected on the back end of SWTOR. The short form is that making all items in a collection separate items had a lot of nasty side effects. It increased the amount of data storage per character considerably, it increased login times to handle versioning up your character, and it also quintupled the number of things in the collections GUI, making that GUI an unreadable mess. The team working on this feature looked at these problems and decided that the best possible solution to these issues was to consolidate these items into sets.
I understand this reasoning and can't actually see any good way around it, which is why I don't expect what people are asking for here ever to happen.

However, can you explain why the Covert Energy "set" is broken up into three subsets, two of which contain only one item? Why do you treat that "set" special when other "sets" like Revan's have to be complete in order to unlock? If anything, this is annoying in the opposite way, because I have to pay three set unlock charges which are probably more than what I should legitimately pay to unlock the Covert Energy "set" if it was treated all as one "set."

The bottom line here is that if you just made Revan's set an exception to this rule, like the Eradicator's set is, put the mask in one "set" and the rest of it in another "set," you would clear up 95% of all the legitimate gripes you would ever have on this feature. Most of the real pain you're seeing in here is from people seeing silly things like the Covert set that show you "can" do this on a limited number of items, but you have chosen not to do it on one particular set that people who play this game get overly wound up about.

None of the sets other than Revan's are either rare enough or expensive enough for the whining about completeness to deserve much weight. And there aren't any other sets where people so peculiarly and stridently insist on using and wanting only one piece of it, while the rest is widely despised and forgotten.

Loknido's Avatar


Loknido
05.20.2013 , 10:53 AM | #304
This is something that makes sense, loading times are an issue to a lot of people already.
Imdabes

Korusus's Avatar


Korusus
05.20.2013 , 10:58 AM | #305
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post


So, yeah, that's on the design team. I swear, not because we're evil jerk designers, we just kinda failed to fully realize how the feature would end up playing out . We now have a better grasp of the ramifications of this decision, and we're aware of the unhappiness it caused.
It's interesting to see you post this. I think a lot of the disconnect between BioWare Austin and the subscribers can be traced to this mindset right there. There's seems to be a serious lack of thinking things through from a customer service side. That then wastes everyones time and loses you guys subscribers when you then have to eat crow and go back and do the thing you said you weren't (or couldn't) do. Two examples jump out at me are Revan's chestpiece and the free month only for level 50s. Had either of those two things been thought all the way through, the backlash on them could be predicted.

Same thing for this collections issue. Yes it works from a financial and technical point of view, but did no one seriously consider the potential for backlash from a customer's perspective?

Arlon_Nabarlly's Avatar


Arlon_Nabarlly
05.20.2013 , 11:12 AM | #306
One of the main problems with this idea is the fact that so many of the sets come piece by piece from gamble packs, so it's quite difficult to get the full set. If it's determined that the scope of effort for individual pieces is too much then a fix could be to do the following:
- Give some kind of buy option to get the remaining options from a partial set via the collections GUI
- In any future packs instead of including 1 item, put an entire set in a box (like the belt bracers boxes) so you get the whole set if you get an item.
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Arlon_Nabarlly's Avatar


Arlon_Nabarlly
05.20.2013 , 11:14 AM | #307
Quote: Originally Posted by Korusus View Post
It's interesting to see you post this. I think a lot of the disconnect between BioWare Austin and the subscribers can be traced to this mindset right there. There's seems to be a serious lack of thinking things through from a customer service side. That then wastes everyones time and loses you guys subscribers when you then have to eat crow and go back and do the thing you said you weren't (or couldn't) do. Two examples jump out at me are Revan's chestpiece and the free month only for level 50s. Had either of those two things been thought all the way through, the backlash on them could be predicted.

Same thing for this collections issue. Yes it works from a financial and technical point of view, but did no one seriously consider the potential for backlash from a customer's perspective?
I think this is true as well. I wonder if this went through any non-developer play testing and how extensive it was.
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Whizle's Avatar


Whizle
05.20.2013 , 11:16 AM | #308
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
Hey, guys, let me give a little background on this decision and how it came to be.

During development of the Collections system, a couple of problems became apparent in terms of how things are architected on the back end of SWTOR. The short form is that making all items in a collection separate items had a lot of nasty side effects. It increased the amount of data storage per character considerably, it increased login times to handle versioning up your character, and it also quintupled the number of things in the collections GUI, making that GUI an unreadable mess. The team working on this feature looked at these problems and decided that the best possible solution to these issues was to consolidate these items into sets.

So, yeah, that's on the design team. I swear, not because we're evil jerk designers, we just kinda failed to fully realize how the feature would end up playing out . We now have a better grasp of the ramifications of this decision, and we're aware of the unhappiness it caused.

We're also aware that using Revan's Mask as an example was a pretty poor call on our part.

We're in the process of evaluating other options that would allow us to give players the functionality that they want, while at the same time address the very real technical and GUI concerns that we faced with our initial architecture of the system. Unfortunately, no option that we come up with is likely to be doable very quickly -- on top of solving the technical problems, we also need to now deal with ensuring anyone who purchases the collected items with the current system end up being correctly credited if we convert something over. As such, I have no ETA for when we will address this.
How about just some consistency then? Nihilus mask = separate; Eradicator mask = separate; Revan's mask = have to get complete set. Huh? You promised me all my toons could wear Revan's mask, but now I have to save up for the stupid gloves and sash first? This is a cruel thing you've done.

Jaing's Avatar


Jaing
05.20.2013 , 11:24 AM | #309
Isn't the game already tracking individual items?

I had covert belt and wrists bound and in my assassin's bank. Ply haven't worn them in 3 months. I picked up the covert energy chest, equipped it, and the set unlocked.

The game is already tracking which items we have. So I don't think it can be said that it would involve more work/memory/processing to track the items. I do understand that the user interface for collections would have to change to accomodate individual items.

I'm also wondering why this wasn't know about a week before the patch came out. Was it just expected that an additional layer of complexity would be added on, or was that the part about misscommunication between departments?
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oofalong
05.20.2013 , 11:29 AM | #310
Quote: Originally Posted by Whizle View Post
How about just some consistency then? Nihilus mask = separate; Eradicator mask = separate; Revan's mask = have to get complete set. Huh? You promised me all my toons could wear Revan's mask, but now I have to save up for the stupid gloves and sash first? This is a cruel thing you've done.
The other aspect of this is that the Revan set has 3 rare pieces - helmet, belt and gloves and costs 600 CC to unlock the set. Yet, the Nihilus mask is only 1 piece, but has the same 600 CC unlock price.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You are correct Oofalong.