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Why no acknowledgement of overpowered heals?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why no acknowledgement of overpowered heals?

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
05.17.2013 , 02:10 PM | #151
Well; like it or not, group composition and coordination matter when trying to take out a healer who is a part of another group. May seem difficult but the only realy trick is to have your composition and teamwork outweigh the other teams. its the way it has always been. Maybe healers are even more valuable now, but so what? You can have the same healers if you really wanted to.

Baedwulf's Avatar


Baedwulf
05.17.2013 , 02:11 PM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Because there is nothing balanced about it. It's one thing for a tank and a healer to survive 2-3 dps(albeit they should be struggling to do so), but an entire team beating on him and surviving without ever running going below 60% hp...? It should never happen. I would say it baffles me that anyone thinks this is ok, but then I realize that all of you are just hiding behind that veil and realize that if they balanced out healing you would suddenly be terrible at the game.
You're absolutely right it shouldn't happen... and if an entire team is beating on a healer and can't get him below 60%... that's not a game design flaw. The flaw is between the keyboard and the seat at your desk.
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sirullrich's Avatar


sirullrich
05.17.2013 , 02:12 PM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Because there is nothing balanced about it. It's one thing for a tank and a healer to survive 2-3 dps(albeit they should be struggling to do so), but an entire team beating on him and surviving without ever running going below 60% hp...? It should never happen. I would say it baffles me that anyone thinks this is ok, but then I realize that all of you are just hiding behind that veil and realize that if they balanced out healing you would suddenly be terrible at the game.
But too bad for you if it was me I woulda killed the damn healers first. The jug fell into the pit more than once and while the enemy team kept letting him leap back up. Kill the healers and who is going to keep up the tank. You fail to realize that 2 healers were healing the jug. Freeeeeeeecasting. O btw I am can dps too and ugly is mainly a dps and he has never complained about healing be too strong.

sirullrich's Avatar


sirullrich
05.17.2013 , 02:14 PM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by Baedwulf View Post
You're absolutely right it shouldn't happen... and if an entire team is beating on a healer and can't get him below 60%... that's not a game design flaw. The flaw is between the keyboard and the seat at your desk.
He is not talking about the healer. He is talking about the tank. In the video he shows 2 healer freecasting the tank and the other team not being able to bring down the tank. Not once did the other team try to kill the healer.

Baedwulf's Avatar


Baedwulf
05.17.2013 , 02:15 PM | #155
In fact I refuse to heal.... level 55 sorc and I have NOT ONCE spec'd heals. My legacy name is even "deepy'ess".

Healing is fine... it's definitely a skill/coordination problem and I suggest grouping up with friends and finding ways to kill healers. This is why we have CC.
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Baedwulf's Avatar


Baedwulf
05.17.2013 , 02:17 PM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by sirullrich View Post
He is not talking about the healer. He is talking about the tank. In the video he shows 2 healer freecasting the tank and the other team not being able to bring down the tank. Not once did the other team try to kill the healer.
LMAO! I missed the vid... came into the convo late. Either way you look at it... the issue is still the same and it's not a game design flaw. yes, this game has some problems but healer/tank combos is not one of them.

Lemme check this vid out.
Money may not buy you happiness, but it can buy you another account after you've been banned from the forums.
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funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
05.17.2013 , 02:20 PM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by Baedwulf View Post
If you took 3 teams of equal skill.

Team 1: 2 tanks/2 DPS/4 healers (DPS out stat)

Team 2: 2 tanks/4 DPS/2 healers (Healers out stat)

Team 3: 2 tanks/3 DPS/3 healers (Stats are equal)
...
Barbie says ...

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

Baedwulf's Avatar


Baedwulf
05.17.2013 , 02:27 PM | #158
Found the vid... looks like what would happen in ranked if teams bothered to try and DPS the tank down. Same thing happened pre 2.0 and now it's gonna happen more.

Like Sith said, healers free casted on him. If 2 of those guys would have taken 5-10 seconds to focus a healer they could have killed the ball carrier.

There was absolutely no coordination... it was just a bunch of guys playing whack a mole on the wrong target.
Money may not buy you happiness, but it can buy you another account after you've been banned from the forums.
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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
05.17.2013 , 02:28 PM | #159
Quote: Originally Posted by sirullrich View Post
But too bad for you if it was me I woulda killed the damn healers first.
Chances are you wouldn't have.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.17.2013 , 02:28 PM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by Baedwulf View Post
I don't think you do... from my experience healers have always out stat'd DPS for reasons I stated before. Check my previous posts. It's as simple as math is and healing and DPS have scaled in a similar fashion from pre 2.0 to post 2.0.

It's as simple as this.

If you took 3 teams of equal skill.

Team 1: 2 tanks/2 DPS/4 healers (DPS out stat)

Team 2: 2 tanks/4 DPS/2 healers (Healers out stat)

Team 3: 2 tanks/3 DPS/3 healers (Stats are equal)

In team 1 the DPS will out stat the healers and in team 2 the healers will out stat the DPS. Of course there are variables involved such as facing a team of 4 healers improves DPS stats since stuff isn't dying and you're able to attack constantly for the duration of the WZ but you should get the idea.

But basically this is the argument... and of course there are variables such as the other teams composition. And of course it's not EXACT or perfect but... This is what I see from my experience.
You seem to be saying that if there are more DPS than healer then the healer has to have higher HPS than the BEST enemy DPS. This is wrong. Imagine 2 teams with 1 healer and 7 DPS. If both team know what they're doing, the lone healer will be target of 7 DPS the moment any fight begins. Because we have no tanks, that lone healer is obviously going to die very horribly. It's almost unfathomable the healer could possibly pump out higher HPS than the best opposing DPS (probably some kind of ranged DPS). The healer might have a higher HPS than the average DPS on the other side, but he should not be able to touch the best DPS. And why should he, if he is indeed properly focus fired by the opposing team, and in this case we got no tank and no other healer so he can't possibly do anything to improve his survivality.

Now one thing you sort of alluded to is that tanks should be considered part of the healer crew. After all, if the tank didn't improve the healer's performance, why is he even there? He sure isn't going to out DPS the enemy DPS. So let's say you have these numbers:

Your top tank - 500K damage done, protection irrelevent (because any benefit of protection is reflected by the additional heals your healer did)
Your top healer - 1.5M healed
Their top DPS - 1 million damage done (X2)

In this scenario you can say it's perfectly fair that the healer healed for 50% more than their top DPS because your tank only did 50% of their DPS and makes up the other 50% as his Guard/other abilities improved your healer's survivality to do that extra in heals. But the healer did not do this alone. If you replaced your tank with a clone of the enemy DPS, then the healer's HPS is almost certainly going to drop. Further, there's no rule written in stone that the healer's total healed must not be less than 1 million. In particular, if the enemy top DPS then outplayed your top healer (say, by killing him now that he has no tank to hide behind), it'd be reasonable to expect your healer do heal less than what their top DPS did.

I didn't mention this earlier but the healer who healed 600K while dying 7 times was never guarded (compared to our DPS doing 500K with 1 death). I don't think they had a tank in the game. In fact if he's guarded you'd have to try really hard to die 7 times. So there's no tank to pump up the healer's HPS, but even while dying a rather ridiculous 7 times in the WZ, that guy still outhealed our best DPS who died only once.