Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Why no acknowledgement of overpowered heals?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why no acknowledgement of overpowered heals?

Tankqull's Avatar


Tankqull
05.16.2013 , 05:18 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by MajinUltima View Post
Healing should not be so overpowered that the ONLY thing a healer has to do is run away with a HOT on themselves and live indefinitely, which is currently the case.
what a rubbish!
if you cant outdamage 2,2k of healing done by the strongest hot IG coming from ops/scound every three seconds you are not even worth to be called DD.

vimm's Avatar


vimm
05.16.2013 , 05:20 AM | #72
This thread gave me cancer.
geeR
Phantom of the Operative

prodigyqnz's Avatar


prodigyqnz
05.16.2013 , 06:38 AM | #73
I truely hope you all get your wish.. I hope they nerf healing into the ground.. One of my own guildies in frustration even mentioned 50% trauma debuff..

When healing gives nothing but negative returns to the dps that is being put out.. healers will become a liability rather than an important part to a team. Playing a healer is fun however at the same time playing a healer takes tough wills.. As a healer you are focused by everyone on the other side all the time.. basically Public Enemy #1. You have to fend off attacks.. find the right position.. and keep your team alive.. or save someone in jeopardy. If you die.. they die.. If you focus on only healing yourself they die.. All the while Watching nodes etc...

Now when i said a healer must cover the damage of at least 2 dps and 1 tank one of my fellow gamers protested..

Now I don't mean that everyone should be at 100% health at all times because the healer is going to out heal all that damage.

I mean in a perfect world the game.. most times there are 2 healers 2 tanks 4 dps.. Those 2 healers are responsible for keeping people alive vs the 2 tanks and 4 dps.. That does not mean that their heals will out do the damage dealt, it means that including those players Defensive cooldowns.. personal heals.. Positioning , Those heals will help subsidize the damage being dealt to them. This will allow them to either kill the opposing player or escape to safety to try again.

When i play Dps i personally have no problems taking them down.. Too many people are playing tanks and not true dps is the real problem right now..

Like i said i hope you all get your wish.. I would love to just tunnel and DPS non stop, not having to worry about CC'ing or focusing a healer.. because their heals will be so far behind the dps.. that they wont even matter..
If no mistake have you made, yet losing you are.. a different game you should play... --Yoda
Prophecy | Pröphet | Profit | Professìonal etc... 20x55's and bored...
(used to be)The Fatman

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
05.16.2013 , 06:50 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by prodigyqnz View Post
I truely hope you all get your wish.. I hope they nerf healing into the ground.. One of my own guildies in frustration even mentioned 50% trauma debuff..

When healing gives nothing but negative returns to the dps that is being put out.. healers will become a liability rather than an important part to a team. Playing a healer is fun however at the same time playing a healer takes tough wills.. As a healer you are focused by everyone on the other side all the time.. basically Public Enemy #1. You have to fend off attacks.. find the right position.. and keep your team alive.. or save someone in jeopardy. If you die.. they die.. If you focus on only healing yourself they die.. All the while Watching nodes etc...

Now when i said a healer must cover the damage of at least 2 dps and 1 tank one of my fellow gamers protested..

Now I don't mean that everyone should be at 100% health at all times because the healer is going to out heal all that damage.

I mean in a perfect world the game.. most times there are 2 healers 2 tanks 4 dps.. Those 2 healers are responsible for keeping people alive vs the 2 tanks and 4 dps.. That does not mean that their heals will out do the damage dealt, it means that including those players Defensive cooldowns.. personal heals.. Positioning , Those heals will help subsidize the damage being dealt to them. This will allow them to either kill the opposing player or escape to safety to try again.

When i play Dps i personally have no problems taking them down.. Too many people are playing tanks and not true dps is the real problem right now..

Like i said i hope you all get your wish.. I would love to just tunnel and DPS non stop, not having to worry about CC'ing or focusing a healer.. because their heals will be so far behind the dps.. that they wont even matter..
All I see here is "Healers must be gods else they are useless." Toning them down will not make them useless as they still have their place in the game and give an advantage in a fight. Currently between cross healing and guards, 2 healers can keep an entire team up forever. It's boring, to play that turtle style match and it's boring to fight against it.

If you want to keep healing as ridiculously OP as it is right now then guard needs to be nerfed down to 25%. With taunts up it would bring it up to 50%. Either guard needs to be nerfed or healing does because right now the combination is way too strong. Or if you insist on leaving everything as is, then cross healing needs to have diminishing returns.

prodigyqnz's Avatar


prodigyqnz
05.16.2013 , 07:02 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
All I see here is "Healers must be gods else they are useless." Toning them down will not make them useless as they still have their place in the game and give an advantage in a fight. Currently between cross healing and guards, 2 healers can keep an entire team up forever. It's boring, to play that turtle style match and it's boring to fight against it.

If you want to keep healing as ridiculously OP as it is right now then guard needs to be nerfed down to 25%. With taunts up it would bring it up to 50%. Either guard needs to be nerfed or healing does because right now the combination is way too strong. Or if you insist on leaving everything as is, then cross healing needs to have diminishing returns.
Eyes wide shut.. you clearly read nothing..

You are basing your complaints for healers on other classes .. This is why there are always balance issues.. basing how a class should be changed based on another class.. You need to base it on the Class itself and nothing more.. Healers are overpowered because of guard.. Maybe its not healinig thats overpowered but tanks..?
Or neither.. I could heal indefinitely before 2.0 not because healing is overpowered but because i know what i am doing.. Anyone who knows me on my server (PoT5) knows i play all classes.. So I am certainly No advocate for just healing.. I am an advocate for not breaking game play.. If you played healer at all you would certainly know they are not gods now.. and never have been.. You can go and say "but i do play healer" but the fact that you said that clearly shows you would be lying.. As i said I hope heals do get nerfed.. It takes the game being broken for people to realize what they lost..

Final post on this topic i think I have covered all my points..

let the flames continue.
If no mistake have you made, yet losing you are.. a different game you should play... --Yoda
Prophecy | Pröphet | Profit | Professìonal etc... 20x55's and bored...
(used to be)The Fatman

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
05.16.2013 , 08:09 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by prodigyqnz View Post
Eyes wide shut.. you clearly read nothing..

You are basing your complaints for healers on other classes .. This is why there are always balance issues.. basing how a class should be changed based on another class.. You need to base it on the Class itself and nothing more.. Healers are overpowered because of guard.. Maybe its not healinig thats overpowered but tanks..?
Or neither.. I could heal indefinitely before 2.0 not because healing is overpowered but because i know what i am doing.. Anyone who knows me on my server (PoT5) knows i play all classes.. So I am certainly No advocate for just healing.. I am an advocate for not breaking game play.. If you played healer at all you would certainly know they are not gods now.. and never have been.. You can go and say "but i do play healer" but the fact that you said that clearly shows you would be lying.. As i said I hope heals do get nerfed.. It takes the game being broken for people to realize what they lost..

Final post on this topic i think I have covered all my points..

let the flames continue.
I have a scoundrel and I have spec'd heals before and did so while wearing dps gear. All I have to say is that it is brain dead easy, especially now that probes are dirt cheap and you can practically spam them. Topple that with emergency medpack and the class is a cake walk. I've lost count of how many times I've gotten down to 10% hp and then walked away with over 60% hp while having time to emote.

http://i.imgur.com/rJ2foyY.jpg?1

Relatively quick game I got in this morning. DPS geared, and I've only played heal spec like 5 times now...Sorry but it is easy mode.

Whizzer_'s Avatar


Whizzer_
05.16.2013 , 10:40 AM | #77
The big problem I see is that healing itself is not a very fun or rewarding experience in random WZs if you can't outheal the 1 DPS hanging on your backside.
The amount of healers who played random without a premade with a tank or something strange like bubblespec was pretty small before 2.0, in my experience.
In my mind thats part of Biowares problem here, they obviously want all 3 roles represented in a WZ, but healing other people and dying as soon as there is some actual Player versus Player involving your character is not a very fun role to have.
If some of the nerfs posted here come through, you would have to compensate the healers somehow, otherwise we are back to a lot more DPS Players and that with an even faster TTK.
Maybe something like WOWs goodies for tanks for SWTOR healers who queue for a random WZ?
Give me an extra 75 comms and 20K credits for every WZ as an underpowered healer and we can talk

Soxbadger's Avatar


Soxbadger
05.16.2013 , 10:59 AM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
I have a scoundrel and I have spec'd heals before and did so while wearing dps gear. All I have to say is that it is brain dead easy, especially now that probes are dirt cheap and you can practically spam them. Topple that with emergency medpack and the class is a cake walk. I've lost count of how many times I've gotten down to 10% hp and then walked away with over 60% hp while having time to emote.

http://i.imgur.com/rJ2foyY.jpg?1

Relatively quick game I got in this morning. DPS geared, and I've only played heal spec like 5 times now...Sorry but it is easy mode.

Check out the dps. There were only 2 players who put out up about 500k damage, and they were on your team. The empire team sucked. In fact the other team had 3 healers, which is probably the reason why they couldnt kill you, because they didnt have the necessary dps to win.

Im not sure if you are trolling, but your screen shot is evidence that healing is NOT OP. It shows that in a wz where 1 team has more healing and the other team has more dps, that dps will win.

Id have to see how much damage you took, but Im guessing less than 200k, which is basically free casting for a healer.

UncelSam's Avatar


UncelSam
05.16.2013 , 11:03 AM | #79
Solution:

A) Remove premades from regular PvP.

or

B) Cap heals with "Kolto Poisoning" meaning that you can only heal X amount per combat. After that Kolto doesnt help. You need to break combat to remove the Kolto Poisoning.

or

C) A real openworld PvP area with quests and rewards.

In old SWG there was a cap of how much you could heal and a cooldown of the heals. In this SWTOR there is NO cap whatsoever. It causes a HUGE problem since PvP in SWTOR is in boxed areas with static number of player(8vs8). If the WZ starts with a bad setup of random player without a healers, the whole WZ is 100% certain loss and that means NO FUN. Thats why ppl leave WZ so frequently.

So, BW needs to balace out the powerhealing premades if the PvP is to survive.

Paulman's Avatar


Paulman
05.16.2013 , 11:57 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by MajinUltima View Post
That's just not the case, if you're killing healers, it's often because THEY are playing badly or not evasively enough, especially Scoundrel/Operative whose probe/medpac FAR outdoes mobile damage of all ranged specs and many melee specs. If all you're doing is chasing a healer who is constantly running, LOSing, etc, then you aren't doing damage or taking objectives, which means you aren't achieving anything productive.

The worst part is, it isn't even optional. If you chase them, you're not achieving anything. If you DON'T chase them, they freecast. It's a literal lose-lose situation that becomes worse the more players are involved.

A sniper or marauder can theoretically stack enough cooldowns and burst abilities to take one down, but that's a completely inane way to justify healing as "balanced". "Well 2 of the 18 dps specs in the game could theoretically burst down a healer with no cooldowns of their owyn who sits there and takes it, so healing is balanced." Completely insane.

Stacked healers makes things more difficult. Have 2-3 people chasing 1 healer, and said healer is themself being healed extensively by the other un-focused healers.

Warzone results consistently show healers above dps, often by very large margins. What people overlook is that dps values are INFLATED by a lot of wasted cleaves, AOEs, DOTs, that never endanger someone and don't kill anyone and are easily meditated off. It's VERY easy to spam Corrosive Grenades and Shrap Bombs to inflate damage numbers while achieving nothing whatsoever.

Healing, however, is UNDERstated in the results, where overhealing and unused absorbs aren't included. This actually means that the true output of healers is even HIGHER than results typically reflect. So not only is it mathematically FAR easier to achieve high healing numbers, those numbers are actually understated, whereas a lot of damage numbers are inflated and overstated. The margin between healing and dps is considerably higher than scorescreens will ever reflect. If you see 1 million healing to 500k damage, the true discrepancy is more like 1.2 million to 400k, or even wider.

This is a simple observerable mathematical fact.
Cc, focus fire, interrupts. Learn to use them.

Healing isn't understated. It shows how much was healed. Potential healing is understated just as potential damage is understated. The stats show what was actually done instead of hypothetically what was done.

You talk a lot about math and theory but in practice not everything works out like that. First of all stats don't decide warzone wins. Capping an objective, guarding and an objective produce no numbers but that's how wins are achieved. Once one team gains an advantage objectively it can be difficult to recover which will further skew the numbers, because the losing team will have to throw themselves at objectives to attempt a win.

Mathematically speaking you should have an advantage at playing blackjack at a casino because you can choose how much you bet you would have an advantage. But in practice they have table limits so there is only so much you can bet. It's the same for dps and healing. Players only have a limited amount of hit points. This is why focus fire, cc, and interrupts are necessary. If you just let healers sit there and free cast, sure you'll be at a disadvantage just as if I am a ranged dps and let a melee dps sit there and beat on me.

If you see a healer getting a million healing, it was probably just one healer just free casting. If 6-7 dps can't get on healers that's their own fault for losing.

Tanks got massive buffs in 1.2, who do you think is keeping those healers alive? Just saying.