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Guardians and Vanguards using Shadow tanking setbonus?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Guardians and Vanguards using Shadow tanking setbonus?

Sarapham's Avatar

05.09.2013 , 01:30 PM | #1
Recently I have been faced with multiple people that have as Guardian and Vanguard tanks been using Shadow-tank armorings to get the 4 piece set bonus. Apparently the 2% damage reduction makes up for the loss of own class set bonus and DPS.

Any thoughts about this? Sounds very dubious to me.

Kitru's Avatar

05.09.2013 , 01:33 PM | #2
The more DR you get, the more valuable linear increases in the value are. As such, 2% DR is going to contribute substantially more for a Guardian or VG (managing ~50% DR) than it will for a Shadow (managing roughly 35% DR). Moreso, flat DR increases are definitely worth more than the 2% Defense chance that VG/PTs get (both because it's a static amount so it's not as spiky *and* for the same reason that straight DR is more valuable for Guard/VGs as it is to Shadows) and probably just as much if not more than the 20% increase to Blade Storm Guardians get.

The only reason it might possibly be worse is that said Guard/PTs are losing the increase CD durations from their 2 piece bonuses. It might not seem like much, but it can have a pretty big effect.

Considering it's possible to taunt spam and never hav to worry about threat and that Guardian's get pretty much all of the same benefits for Blade Barrier from Willpower as Shield (slightly less thanks to the 6% additional Str talent, but that's not going to amount to much), they're not even losing all that much.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar

05.09.2013 , 01:42 PM | #3
Seems very dubious for a guardian because of the hit to Blade Barrier. The loss of the 20% bonus is really annoying. Additionally, willpower does not contribute to bonus healing for a guardian, so far as I can tell in my measurements. So, not only are you losing the 20% multiplier, but you're also losing flat value. Given the prominence of blade barrier in the guardian survivability profile, it's possible (even probable) that this hit alone out weighs the 2% flat DR.

Makes sense for vanguards though. The shadow 4 piece is far better than the vanguard 4 piece, though its a pity that the 2 piece is useless.
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TheRampage's Avatar

05.09.2013 , 01:53 PM | #4
Any idea where to get 4 set bonus now, impossible? Since now bonuses are bound to armoring and well... cant run with armoring
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WillLongstick's Avatar

05.09.2013 , 03:55 PM | #5
I posted about this in the PTS forum to show my annoyance with seemingly every other class getting buffed set bonus while Jugg tanks still had the exact same (PTS forums are now wiped, wishing I had archived my post). With Force Scream on a 12 second cooldown, a mostly 72 Jugg tank will absorb 1252 damage, or 104 HPS without the set bonus. With the 4 piece set bonus, you gain an extra 21 HPS for a total of 125 HPS from Force Scream.

I remember doing tests with all the free Arkanian on the PTS. The difference in threat was that with 4 willpower armorings you pulled 90-92% of the threat you would with strength armorings. I then worked out that you lost about 5 HPS from Force Scream (each bubble absorbing about 1190) when you had 4 willpower armorings compared to 4 non-set bonus strength armorings. That means as a whole, going from 4 Strength set bonus armorings to 4 Willpower armorings causes you to lose 25 HPS from Force Scream (note, this is independent of how hard the boss is hitting).

The question then becomes how hard must a boss hit for the 25 HPS to be outweighed by a 2% overall DR? Well, for pre-mitigation DPS above 2381 for 90% accuracy melee, and pre-mitigation DPS above 1429 for Force/Tech attacks (Kinetic/Energy damage), the Sin's set bonus mitigates more than the Jugg set bonus on a Jugg. To put that into perspective, that's 500 DTPS for the melee case and 497 DTPS for the Force case after mitigation. Now considering we're getting hit for 1200 DTPS or higher after mitigation, the Sin set bonus really starts to take off. At the 1200 DTPS level, you're taking 30 less damage per second with the Sin set bonus.

So at "normal" damage levels, you knock off 30 more DTPS with the Sin set bonus. You're threat is reduced to 90% of what you're doing with strength armorings though. You also lose 1 second of Blade Turning and Invincible is 10 seconds instead of 12. Worth it? I've already got 2 Underworld Sin tank armorings in my cargo bay while I wait for 2 more drops.

I personally would not go for the Sin tank set bonus as a PT. The threat loss will be much larger as PT's don't use Willpower as a secondary stat. And even though they'll mitigate more with the Sin tank set bonus, the PT set bonus at least scales with incoming damage levels.
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Vaidinah's Avatar

05.12.2013 , 04:24 AM | #6
One aspect of the set bonus that hasn't been mentioned is that the Guardian/Juggernaut one does not apply to the shield we give to our allies when we use our AoE taunt (Guardianship/Sonic Wall). I tested it thoroughly today with the help of some guildies and it was a bit disappointing. That is another point in favor in using the Shadow/Assassin tank set bonus.

If the Guardian/Juggernaut tank set bonus did work with Guardianship/Sonic Wall, I think that would be a worthwhile trade-off since preventing damage for your team is one of the best aspects of 2.0 Guardians/Juggernauts.
The Harbinger

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TridusSWTOR's Avatar

05.15.2013 , 11:32 AM | #7
I know a few post here favor the assassin set bonus over the juggernaut set bonus, but for those of you who play juggernaut tank, are you really gearing this way?

The benefits seem clear enough but It just feels "wrong" losing all that STR. I'm only wondering because I'm close to getting a 2/4 piece set bonus on my juggernaut tank and if this is the BiS way to go then I'll do it.

Vaidinah's Avatar

05.15.2013 , 03:58 PM | #8
While some people will, I know I won't as the increase in survivability is minimal enough that I'd rather have the increased damage/threat on my Juggernaut.
The Harbinger

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Guide: From Beginner to Master