Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

How Bolster works on 55 lvl and how min/max it

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
How Bolster works on 55 lvl and how min/max it

Tankqull's Avatar


Tankqull
05.11.2013 , 06:30 AM | #61
funny part about bolster is that the best equip you can wear is actually crafted lvl 54, e.g.
implants:
http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/3252/o6zshufd_png.htm

you have by far a wider varity of items therefor can much more otimize it to your likings with higher stats (4xx points crafted vs 340 conqueror ) while losing only 2 points of expertise per substituted item (implants =2 , torso =3x2 =6)

Dawncatcher's Avatar


Dawncatcher
05.11.2013 , 08:23 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Genttry View Post
Perfect, I agree. Bugs apart, the competitive PvP'ers who aren't interested in rolling people because of gear gaps love the new bolster. Ding ding, right on bro. Again, great post. Don't listen to the disgruntled. I appreciate your testing to help figure out the details of how this new bolster system works. Admitedly, I was too lazy to do a lot of personal testing. Keep it up man, keep it up. One of the rare posts that isn't just a bunch of whining! The people who complain about your posts are secretly syaing "i love you..." The bandwagon is too full and eventually those who remain in-game will make sense of the system and use it when they gear up to min/max. *tips hat with all of the others to thank you, even the ones who claim "lolbolster." They love you too! It is one big love-fest man!
If you'd actually read the whole opening post, you would realize bolster is in fact creating a huge stat gap in ways people don't even realize until they enter a warzone and start inspecting and seeing people who have significantly better gear than them have significantly worse post-bolster stats or vice versa.

To make it perfectly clear from those who can't figure it out from the thread opener's post, quoting something I typed in another thread because I don't want to type it all out again:

Quote: Originally Posted by Dawncatcher View Post
Bolster does not remove the gear gap. In many cases, it widens the gear gap. This is because it behaves in ways that are completely unpredictable to the average player who has not done extensive testing to figure out how it works or having read the findings of someone who has. If you had actually read what we were talking about, rather than putting words in people's mouths because "Bolster is supposed to remove the gear gap, and there for anyone who is collecting numbers on it must be just want to outgear you, therefore they must be complaining about the lack of gear gap", you would have noticed the following issues, which I shall now reword to attempt to make it more clear why people might go in with gear that gets under-bolstered. (This is without even getting into exploits people have been complaining about in other threads.)
* A jedi sentinel who turned 50 and got the Recruit set just before the expansion came out goes into the level 55 (or pre-55) warzones wearing this, assuming that since his gear has at least some expertise, he'll be better than everyone who doesn't have expertise gear yet. Little does he know that the small amount of expertise on his gear completely negates all the expertise he would've gotten from bolster.
* A vanguard who had a full mixture war hero/elite war hero before the expansion comes out continues to PvP in this gear while working on replacing it with Partisan/Conqueror. He's disappointed when the expertise is removed from all but the relics, but figures it's still better than anything else he could hope to get before Partisan/Conqueror. Little does he know he's receiving a bolster penalty on his two relics, not getting bolstered expertise on them because they already have some relics. After several weeks of PvP with this disadvantage, someone points it out to them, so he removes the relics and leaves the slots empty. What the person failed to tell him, is that since they "fixed" naked PvP, there's also a penalty for leaving slots empty (empty slots receive much less bolster than if you put something, anything, there), and he's still at a disadvantage relative to someone who even put in a couple cheap lightside relics.
* A scoundrel also has war hero from before the update. Not only does she not know to get rid of her war hero relics, she wants to keep her old 2-piece war hero healing set bonus for the +15% Kolto Cloud healing. Kolto Cloud is her only group heal, and she likes that old set bonus much better than the new +10% defense screen absorb set bonus. So she decides to leave the war hero armor mods in place on two pieces of armor, but replace the mod mods and enhancement mods on those pieces. Little does she know this actually results in less expertise, due to bolster not adding expertise to any item that has even 1 expertise on it already, and looking at the item as a whole, not mod-by-mod, and she would've been better off to just leave the war hero mod mods and enhancement mods in those armor pieces, if she wanted the two-piece set bonus so much.
* A commando grinds out Basic gear on Makeb, and, seeing that recruit gear has been replaced with bolster, figures he can PvP with it. Little does he know there's an expertise bolster penalty on higher rated gear. Not even knowing that there is a penalty, let alone how much of one, he doesn't bother to calculate whether the increase in other stats over his old gear from level 50 is worth the expertise loss.

None of these are people deliberately or even accidentally exploiting bugs. In fact, their gear is putting them at a disadvantage. They just don't know it, because they have no idea how bolster works. Back when there was no bolster in endgame PvP, it was easy to see how good your gear was; what you saw was what you got, other than the -30% healing penalty in PvP which was at least simple and easy to calculate. Now there's this mysterious black box that transforms one set of stats outside a warzone into another set of stats inside the warzone, and people who figure out how that mysterious black box works are going to be at an advantage over people who just leap into warzones with no idea how it works, hoping for the best.

Aelaias's Avatar


Aelaias
05.11.2013 , 11:54 AM | #63
OP's goal was to dispel this idiotic (due to shoddy outreach work by Bioware) mystery and along with several other posters he did a good job of it. So if anyone is still clueless the fault is entirely theirs.
Shadowlands
Letho - Vanguard
Óberyn-Guardian
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...7-5e5489ff3b47

Dawncatcher's Avatar


Dawncatcher
05.11.2013 , 03:46 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelaias View Post
OP's goal was to dispel this idiotic (due to shoddy outreach work by Bioware) mystery and along with several other posters he did a good job of it. So if anyone is still clueless the fault is entirely theirs.
How many of your average PvPers do you think actually read anything on the forum, let alone this specific post?

Also, the fact that even the thread opener's post contains errors about the function of bolster, in spite of the extensive time he obviously put into testing it, demonstrates how confusing it is. I already pointed out the errors on page 2, but here's a repeat in case you missed it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dawncatcher View Post
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
3. NEVER USE PvP and PvE gear in one set in general
You need or full PvP Armor gear, or full PvE Armor gear. If you will have, for example, PvE chest but PvP legs, you lose expertise.
Lots of great information here, but this part is incorrect. While replacing war hero with Partisan/Conqueror armor, one piece at a time, my post-bolster expertise gain was exactly 1 expertise per piece. With full war hero (except the relics -- relics were matrix cube and light side relic), I had 2004 expertise. It went up to 2006 when I got a Conqueror blaster and Partisan scattergun, 2007 when I replaced an armor piece, 2008 when I replaced another armor piece, and so on. Perhaps it is true for people with higher rated stuff than war hero, but for old non-expertise armor from back when the level cap was 50, there does not appear to be any expertise bolster penalty for mixing sets, so long the PvP and PvE mods are on separate pieces of equipment.
Quote: Originally Posted by Dawncatcher View Post
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
What about relics?
Best relics is now new PvP ones, cuz Bolster count expertise on them *as is* and dont *bolstered* to up level. Get them first.
Since I had 2004 expertise before I even started getting Conqueror/Partisan, or in other words 2018-14, or -1 expertise per piece of gear, I don't think this is correct. I take an expertise penalty if I unslot my relics altogether and leave them empty, or if I use old war hero relics that already have expertise on them, but as long as I have any old non-expertise relics there, bolster seems to bring them up to Conqueror/Partisan minus 1 expertise. For the record, I'm using a matrix cube and a light side relic.

If even those of us who are testing bolster to try to explain it to others are making mistakes, how much more confusing must it be for someone just hoping that whatever they already have is good enough? To be sure, many of the random people I inspect in warzones have less expertise, by several hundred points or more, than I had before I even it 55, even when they have more pieces of Partisan/Conqueror gear than I do.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.11.2013 , 04:00 PM | #65
The thing about Bolster is that if you assume PvP gear works and just wear Partisan gear it works perfectly fine.

The only major concern is that because Partisan is consumed when getting Conqueror, this makes augging Partisan gear prohibitively expensive for most people. So you're not really talking about Partisan versus whatever PvE gear. You're usually talking about Partisan unaugged veruss PvE gear augged. The augment accounts for a very significant portion of your total stats and Partisan loses out without augs.

That said you could always have some orange gear and just rip out the mods from Partisan and put it in there. Probably a good idea for the long run anyway.

sauerkraut's Avatar


sauerkraut
05.11.2013 , 04:28 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
Bolster on 55 lvl is very good thing. Why? Because if you use it rigth, you never get bad gear gap disadvantage with your other mates or enemies. Now after 2.0 indeed, skill > gear, and it is great.

Before 2.0, when you join wz (in your full min/max ewh certainly) and see 2-3 mates in recruit 13 k hp gear.. or, if worse, in pure pve gear with 0 expertise... dunno how are you, but I always leave before these wz starts. Now all mates have much more good chances for good playing.


Part 1. Gear

There are 4 kind of gear pieces, which have different Bolster influence:
* earpiece and implants
* relics
* mainhand and offhand
* armor gear

Further some rules for ARMOR GEAR ONLY:

1. DO NOT USE ANY OLD PVP GEAR WITH EXPERTISE
Do not use old battlemaster and champion mods, armorings ets.
Do not use old Recruit.
Do not use old wh/ewh relics.
If you will use it, you get SIGNIFICAL LOSE of your *Bolstered* expertise.

2. NEVER MIX *new* PvP and any PvE mods in same piece of gear
For example, never put single Partisan armoring in shell with other any PvE mods.
If you will use it, you get SIGNIFICAL LOSE of your *Bolstered* expertise.

3. NEVER USE PvP and PvE gear in one set in general
You need or full PvP Armor gear, or full PvE Armor gear. If you will have, for example, PvE chest but PvP legs, you lose expertise.

This is things about armor.

But whats about earpieces and implants?
Wonderful, but Bolster practically dont affected them!
The best implants and earpieces with best stats indeed crafted 53-54 levels! You lose only around -2 /-8 *Bolstered* expertise when use these implants, but get plenty useful stats compared with Conqueror ones (but Conqueror still have better endurance).

What about relics?
Best relics is now new PvP ones, cuz Bolster count expertise on them *as is* and dont *bolstered* to up level. Get them first.

What about mainhand and offhand?
Like for armor pieces, you lose expertise when use any PvE piece of gear higher than 63 grade, but they can bring you additional damage for 66 grade, 69 or 72. Indeed, there is no significal difference in Conqueror 65 grade with crafted 66 grade purple (+10 damage, -10 expertise) or 69/72 (more damage, less expertise). Since hard cap expertise now 2018, I think *soft cap* good around ~1850, so for min/max you can use PvE 66/69/72 instead of Conqueror.


Part 2. Learn to play

In new rules of Bolser, there is only ~10-15% gear gap between 4 kinds of gear grind:
(old min/max WH/EWH 61/63) * Bolster (+ probably Conqueror mainhand) = (crafted blue/purple min/max 66 gear) * Bolster = (dropped fp/ops purple 69/72 gear) * Bolster = Partisan (min/max)
Stock Partisan gear worse than any min/max gear above.
Mix of Partisan and any PvE gear have awful stats.

Conqueror gear seems on 5-10% better than min/max Partisan gear and crafted 66 grade gear (have more expertise, endurance and mainstat, less secondary stats like power, shield, absorb, crit etc)
So, there is several ways to gear up with Bolster after 2.0 (you must have as true pvp'er 4500 ranked and 2750 wz commz when you ding 55 lvl):
* Use your old ewh min/max gear or
* Craft for yourself 66 level min/max (!!!) blue/purple gear
* Buy Partisan and Conqueror relics for your wz commz
* (optional) Buy Conqueror mainhand for your wz commz
* Buy or craft for yourself purple 53/54 lvl earpiece and implants

- and you will be *golden* and competitive on wz.

Use that gear until you get full min/max Partisan or ever full min/max Conqueror.

For example, yesterday on wz my *nerfed in ground* assault vanguard, with full old good ewh min/max armor, conqueror mainhand, pvp relics and crafted earpieces and implants (have overall *bolstered* 1963 expertise, 1586 primary damage) I make 870k damage + 50 k protection and was only #2 on dps scoreboard, after full min/max conqueror focus sentinel who makes 1 million damage. And yes, we win that wz.

Or, for another example, my guardian tank have bolstered 1873 expertise, 47% passive armor mitigation, 39k hp, 13% defence, 39% shield and 31% absorb + yet two shield proc relics which add me yet 10-15% absorb (=40-45% absorb overall) half-time. And I am very very fat and happy guardian. Have full 66 purple gear (+ old 61 wh armorings for set bonus) + pvp proc relics.


Part 3. Min/max your Bolster

1. Get purple crafted 53/54 lvl earpiece and implants
2. Get Partisan and Conqueror relics for Power proc if you are dps or healer and Partisan + Conqueror relics for shield if you are tank
3. Get full min/max Conqueror armor
4. Get 72 grade hilt/barrel for mainhand/offhand
5. Profit

Hope, this research help you in playing and may the Force be with you!
/discuss
So what happened to big bogus baloney, skill should matter, not the gear. It's just like the old system except now the bolster makes PvE gear better than the PvP. How is it any better? Get real, and stop trying to rationalize this madness.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.11.2013 , 04:37 PM | #67
A lot of people seem to be missing a huge point. No matter what you do with your PvE gear, short of aug exploit it'll never be better than Conqueror. But you can come up with something that is competitive against Conqueror if you're clever with the system. Your end goal is still always Conqueror.

Partisan is only inferior to PvE gear if you can't afford to aug it (a very legitmate concern). I can see the argument for augmenting Black Market gear as this will double as very good PvE gear while being slightly better than Partisan unaugged. This allows you to aug only 2 sets of gear instead of 3 (Partisan, Conqueror, and some PvE gear). Note that Partisan augged will easily beat BM augged or anything else that isn't Conqueror augged. It's just that the augment costs are prohibitive on your third set of gear that most don't do it.

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
05.11.2013 , 05:52 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
Um the point of Bolster is to ensure PvP is NOT vastly superior. If that was the goal you wouldn't have Bolster.

There's nothing you can do here that will make your gear better than Conqueror. What it will do is allow you to very quickly come up with a gear that is competitive against Conqueror. You still want Conqueror in the long run.
And the point of changing expertise to as huge as it is now is to make expertise (And therefore pvp gear) absolutely better than any other stat for pve.

But bolster, as you said, was to make pvp gear not vastly superior. Even though 60% is vastly superior.

The two philosophies contradict each other, which is part of the problem with bolster imo
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.11.2013 , 06:13 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Zunayson View Post
And the point of changing expertise to as huge as it is now is to make expertise (And therefore pvp gear) absolutely better than any other stat for pve.

But bolster, as you said, was to make pvp gear not vastly superior. Even though 60% is vastly superior.

The two philosophies contradict each other, which is part of the problem with bolster imo
Well back when Expertise was relatively weak, it was confusing people into thinking that their PvE gear is better than PvP gear and you still have the same problem. I think they made Expertise so big so that they've a bigger range of values to work with. Obviously UW gear would have no shot at being competitive against Conqueror if there isn't Bolster. You sure won't going to do 60% more DPS for wearing UW compared to Conqueror, and people would complain (rightfully) that their best PvE gear doesn't even stand a chance in PvP.

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
05.11.2013 , 06:30 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
Well back when Expertise was relatively weak, it was confusing people into thinking that their PvE gear is better than PvP gear and you still have the same problem. I think they made Expertise so big so that they've a bigger range of values to work with. Obviously UW gear would have no shot at being competitive against Conqueror if there isn't Bolster. You sure won't going to do 60% more DPS for wearing UW compared to Conqueror, and people would complain (rightfully) that their best PvE gear doesn't even stand a chance in PvP.
Yes, and because of that, bolster is required to give expertise. The entire point of making exp linear was so that pve stats were bad compared to exp.

Bolster is there to give pvers a shot, exp is there to not give them a shot.

Right now exp is strong, but bolster is even stronger, canceling it out.

Get rid of exp, and make bolster weaker so that you have less code and balance to work with.

I just... the philosophies contradict, that's all. Its sad imo
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box