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Ridiculous healing for level 55 flashpoints


Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.10.2013 , 05:12 PM | #111
Unless you're talking about a pull where mobs come from different locations, it is trivial to hold aggro against trash mobs as a tank versus the healer. Healers usually get aggro because someone broke CC on a mob that the tank wasn't doing any aggro on (because it's CCed).

The problem with aggro is usually you've some DPS who take aggro without claiming responsibility. That is, any competent DPS should be able to solo even the killer dogs in Mandolorian Raiders by using stuns and, if needed, defensive CDs. But they don't do this. Honestly when you get jumped by 5 dogs you really would prefer the tank get 3 while each DPS picks up 1. You don't have to heal the DPS because they can each solo their dog (would come pretty close to dying, but they should win), so this leaves you with only 3 dogs to worry about on the tank which is certainly better than 5 dogs. Most likely you see a DPS get aggro and then they put the deaggro so that killer dog goes back to the tank, and while you're healing the DPS (who no longer has aggro) the tank dies. If you simply ignore the DPS dying everything should work out okay unless that DPS can't solo a strong by himself (in that case you're likely to have other problems later).

Battyone's Avatar


Battyone
05.10.2013 , 06:34 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
Unless you're talking about a pull where mobs come from different locations, it is trivial to hold aggro against trash mobs as a tank versus the healer. Healers usually get aggro because someone broke CC on a mob that the tank wasn't doing any aggro on (because it's CCed).

The problem with aggro is usually you've some DPS who take aggro without claiming responsibility. That is, any competent DPS should be able to solo even the killer dogs in Mandolorian Raiders by using stuns and, if needed, defensive CDs. But they don't do this. Honestly when you get jumped by 5 dogs you really would prefer the tank get 3 while each DPS picks up 1. You don't have to heal the DPS because they can each solo their dog (would come pretty close to dying, but they should win), so this leaves you with only 3 dogs to worry about on the tank which is certainly better than 5 dogs. Most likely you see a DPS get aggro and then they put the deaggro so that killer dog goes back to the tank, and while you're healing the DPS (who no longer has aggro) the tank dies. If you simply ignore the DPS dying everything should work out okay unless that DPS can't solo a strong by himself (in that case you're likely to have other problems later).
Simple solution, triage. The DPS is not worth heals on that pull, unless you're throwing an instant AoE bomb heal the tank and have your own aggro wipe ready to go if necessary. You know the damage on that pull is obscene, the tank _must_ live a DPS can die.
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wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
05.10.2013 , 06:59 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by Ottoattack View Post
I play a healer and I am mostly in 69 gear. I rarely run into problems if the tank knows what he/she are doing. if they do not, I can still manage, but mandalorian raiders can be get really difficult if dps gets attacked by the hounds or turrets.
That fight with the 2 untauntable dogs is usually screwed up by dps and healers. That happens when they try to avoid (by running like headless chickens ) the dogs that are attacking them. It's useless. They reset aggro every several seconds. They have to pop a defense and deal with it. Dpsers and healer must stay together like brothers in misfortune, papa tank is away keeping the evil boss busy. If they get pushed, they have to run back to the bunch for aoe healing. Boss doesn't do much damage so tank doesnt need much attention from healer.


Quote: Originally Posted by Ottoattack View Post
Also its final boss is much harder than the other fps and its difficult for the tank to maintain threat on the turrets. Also, competent dps can help a lot (and these are rare).
That happens to me. I struggle there with my jugg. I can't seem to find a good spot to smash/sweep both turrets and boss so I can build some good threat on all them. I wound up kind of wasting my taunts :-/

Also, does the boss do an aggro reset when he jumps to those corners with the turrets ? It looks to me like he does, since I've noticed that on ocassions, if I'm busy with the turrets (and so are the dps) he will quickly turn to the healer, not the dps that should be on a higher position on the threat table after me.

Battyone's Avatar


Battyone
05.10.2013 , 07:30 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
That fight with the 2 untauntable dogs is usually screwed up by dps and healers. That happens when they try to avoid (by running like headless chickens ) the dogs that are attacking them. It's useless. They reset aggro every several seconds. They have to pop a defense and deal with it. Dpsers and healer must stay together like brothers in misfortune, papa tank is away keeping the evil boss busy. If they get pushed, they have to run back to the bunch for aoe healing. Boss doesn't do much damage so tank doesnt need much attention from healer.




That happens to me. I struggle there with my jugg. I can't seem to find a good spot to smash/sweep both turrets and boss so I can build some good threat on all them. I wound up kind of wasting my taunts :-/

Also, does the boss do an aggro reset when he jumps to those corners with the turrets ? It looks to me like he does, since I've noticed that on ocassions, if I'm busy with the turrets (and so are the dps) he will quickly turn to the healer, not the dps that should be on a higher position on the threat table after me.
For the dog fight I usually just tell the DPS "Stand on me for AoE heals or you will die." Solves most of the problems.

I'm somewhat sure there is an aggro dump, just because generally between platforms I throw a hot out or hit my self heal and I'm taking shots from him, it's nothing major but it does seem to happen. I haven't had too many problems even with major heal output in pulling threat off from the turrets and boss, and I generally run at least one or two HM pug FPs a day to keep my emergency healing chops up. (The randomness factor and unfamiliarity with the playstyles helps a lot in getting you to be on your toes with your heals imho.) If there isn't I'm almost constantly running dangerously close to pulling aggro, might test this with a group torparse to look at a TPS for me versus the tank.

The best I've seen so far was a tank standing on the boss with DPS focusing one turret at a time, once the tank establishes aggro it's been hard for me to peel it back off as a healer even dumping out AoE healing and other massive heals. If I happen to pull a turret I have an aggro wipe, there's already generally a salvation ticking under my feet so it's not a major deal.

The only time healing gets rough in that fight is when people eat the missile. It's of course impossible if the boss transitions too soon and we get the +500% turret damage debuff (longest I lasted before going totally OOF was about 30 seconds with 3 turrets up)
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Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.10.2013 , 07:39 PM | #115
The final boss on Mandolorian Raiders, like most bosses, have an attack that randomly hits someone with no respect to aggro list. People usually panic too much when they see the boss randomly turn around to attack someone, not realizing that this is completely intended. On that boss if you AE at where the boss is, that will usually cover all the turrets. However due to the significant healing required, AE alone isn't going to hold aggro on the turret your tank isn't attacking. What I usually do is switch to the other turret about 10 seconds into the fight to make sure I have aggro on it, and DPS can just tank the other turret with CD if needed. You don't want the second turret to start hitting your healer, as that's very bad news. DPS should be able to tank one just fine with their CDs, and taunt should definitely be back up after the DPS's defensive CD runs out.

The survivality of DPS in this game isn't really that low, especially when you consider a DPS almost never have to worry about conserving defensive CDs. Although ideally you want your DPS to all focus fire on the same target, having a DPS solo a strong works out just fine, and might even be the better way to do stuff if your tank/healer are relatively weak. Even relatively weak DPS can generally solo a dog, while there's no way a weak tank is going to tank 5 dogs at the same time.

Battyone's Avatar


Battyone
05.10.2013 , 07:42 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
The final boss on Mandolorian Raiders, like most bosses, have an attack that randomly hits someone with no respect to aggro list.
The thing is, there is a red circle for that, he turns to launch the easily avoided rocket. Tanks should understand how that mechanic works, and DPS/heals should _never ever ever EVER_ be hit by it.
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Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.11.2013 , 01:55 AM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Battyone View Post
The thing is, there is a red circle for that, he turns to launch the easily avoided rocket. Tanks should understand how that mechanic works, and DPS/heals should _never ever ever EVER_ be hit by it.
Not talking about the red circle. I think sometimes he simply shoots at another guy just to keep your healers from being too bored. The bonus boss on Cademimu randomly shocks someone that isn't the tank, again to keep healer from being too bored. It's a pretty common mechanism and sometimes people freak out to see the boss turn around to another guy for no apparent reason, because they're supposed to do that. These attacks are just meant to keep your healers on their toes.

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AshlaBoga
05.11.2013 , 02:33 AM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
Not talking about the red circle. I think sometimes he simply shoots at another guy just to keep your healers from being too bored. The bonus boss on Cademimu randomly shocks someone that isn't the tank, again to keep healer from being too bored. It's a pretty common mechanism and sometimes people freak out to see the boss turn around to another guy for no apparent reason, because they're supposed to do that. These attacks are just meant to keep your healers on their toes.
Most of the level 55 random attacks are easy to heal through (well, HM S+V Sunder wailing on a melee dps not so much, but the rest of them yes). The shock in from the Sep Sith in Cad only does about 12k. So just make sure teh dps (and yourself) are at no less then 60% hp at all times.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
05.11.2013 , 06:44 AM | #119
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
The final boss on Mandolorian Raiders, like most bosses, have an attack that randomly hits someone with no respect to aggro list. People usually panic too much when they see the boss randomly turn around to attack someone, not realizing that this is completely intended. On that boss if you AE at where the boss is, that will usually cover all the turrets. However due to the significant healing required, AE alone isn't going to hold aggro on the turret your tank isn't attacking. What I usually do is switch to the other turret about 10 seconds into the fight to make sure I have aggro on it, and DPS can just tank the other turret with CD if needed. You don't want the second turret to start hitting your healer, as that's very bad news. DPS should be able to tank one just fine with their CDs, and taunt should definitely be back up after the DPS's defensive CD runs out.
This is probably the worst way to go about getting both turrets. Unless the DPS are split between the turrets like idiots (this happens so often amongst pugs that it has become one of my primary sources of irritation), every tank should be able to maintain threat on *both* turrets at all times. It's actually pretty simple.

When the boss leaps away, while the turrets are spawning, thrown down a couple of AoEs on him; Slow Time and Force Breach will both cleave to the turrets, Guardian Slash and Force Sweep should as well, Pulse Cannon and the HiB cleave will do the job (Mortar Volley should be able to as well). If you're a Guardian, just throw save Saber Reflect for when the Turrets have popped up and you'll have all the threat you'll ever need on them (9k from Saber Reflect itself and then even more from the actual reflected damage since ranged attacks are *all* the turrets do). Once you've used your 2-3 consecutive AoE casts, swap over to the turret that the DPS are going to focus on. Whenever your AoE comes up again, you can either use it on the turret so that the other turret isn't caught in it or you can swap over to the boss and make sure all 3 are caught in it. AoE damage is only taboo in that fight when DPS are dropping it. Tank AoEs don't hit hard enough to actually cause Mavrix to swap over soon enough, so it's not going to be a concern.

Healer threat, on the other hand, is a complete joke, as it has always been. If the second turret *does* swap over to the healer before the first turret is dead, just swap targets to the second turret for half of a second, throw your taunt, and resume beating on the first turret. Healer threat is both diminished (50% base and often 35-40% after talents) and distributed (so if there are 3 NPCs in combat, all 3 get 33% of the total threat generated from a heal; if there are 5, all 5 get 20% of the total threat generated from a heal). Since there are 3 targets there, it's almost *impossible* for the turrets to swap to the healer if the tank has paid even the *smallest* amount of attention to them.
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wookiwwlover
05.11.2013 , 07:10 AM | #120
I am relativly new to lvl55 Merc healing but I always have the most trouble when dps gets trigger happy and pulls before the tank. Happens a lot in pug groups. Sometimes i have issues with a tank that cant hold agro and I get facerolled by a mob of mando dogs. Loving being a healer though it is a good change from dps. Happy to say only wipes caused have been from poor tanking agro management. Have not found any 55 HMs that have rediculous healing needed.