Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

DPS Boost for assassins


underpantsgnomes's Avatar


underpantsgnomes
05.05.2013 , 02:31 AM | #11
I originally thought sins got more utility/cc than other classes to make up for their crap dps. Well now utility/cc is on par or worse than the average class. Fun times.
Truth lies within.

Sarenne's Avatar


Sarenne
05.05.2013 , 04:53 AM | #12
Yeah we need more sustainable DPS, I think the burst is in a good spot right now. I've read that interview at least a dozen times and it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth - so EAware's "lone wolf" has to be in a group to be effective at it's job?? That's so lame, and what does the group get from it? Oh wow, my dps is now not AS far under every other AC than before I joined the group? Pfffft... fail.

Yes I'd like the shock buff from VS restored, my lesser-geared healing sorc regularly shocks for more damage - is assassin's training still broken? Armor penetration should be a given for this tree - what do you think we're looking at while we're stealthed?? A crit % in the tree? Oh yeah, it'd be nice but won't be holding my breath on that one given the across-the board NERF on crit chance.

What I think we'll get? A buff on phase walk. All I can hope for is that it's useful and not an utter joke - something that will make us competitive with marauders for a melee dps spot in Ops because right now a marauder is 1st choice and 2nd choice is another marauder.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
05.05.2013 , 07:46 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Xethis View Post
Ive known about this interview since the day it was released, trust me I understand their logic. I just don't buy it. The claim that Assassin dps suffers more on a dummy than all other classes because the dummy wont enter an execute phase is ridiculous. Just about every other dps class doesn't parse their execute phase or their armor debuffs, so we should all still be relatively close. To say that they will not take low parses from a dummy to reflect the potential of a dps class is lazy. I cant believe you bought their excuses and line of crap to try and shut us up.
I'll make it clear and say I don't like being balanced by "potential maximum" dps should the stars align and all bonuses to dps are possible.

And again, that is not my view of why but a developers view, what I did was collect parses to prove who was doing what on a dummy.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

underpantsgnomes's Avatar


underpantsgnomes
05.05.2013 , 11:23 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
I'll make it clear and say I don't like being balanced by "potential maximum" dps should the stars align and all bonuses to dps are possible.

And again, that is not my view of why but a developers view, what I did was collect parses to prove who was doing what on a dummy.
You've got sustained dps, burst dps, survivability, healing, utility and cc to play with when balancing classes. Right now I don't think a sin wins in any of those categories save - possibly - survivability. Of course survivability is the absolute worst of the 5 dimensions for balancing so it needs to be a HUGE difference to mean squat. Unfortunately I'd say healers - just by virtue of healing themselves - have more effective survivability anyway.
Truth lies within.

Kayriel's Avatar


Kayriel
05.05.2013 , 03:27 PM | #15
Thx for all the replies guys , i am still hoping that someone from the dev team will get to see some of the issues posted on threads like mine , regarding sin dps
As for the utility , id have to say , we coult use a bit of that as well , but i am kind of hesitant to mention my proposal on that department , but what the hell , here goes nothing :
- remove Force Pull from tank spec and make a skill obtainable by all assassins , good for both PVP and PVE i think . For pvp , i don't need to mention why this would be fantastic , and with this DPS specced sin would actually have a chance of getting into rated teams and for PVE , its a nice utility for pulling patrols , off their path and thinning the heard of mobs that may cause some problems ( i'm thinking of the exploding mercs in S&V ,and that would be just 1 example )
When you wish upon a star
I will kill you , near or far

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIY...eature=related

HugoBendtsen's Avatar


HugoBendtsen
05.06.2013 , 02:40 AM | #16
reposted a better and more sober version below

Kayriel's Avatar


Kayriel
05.06.2013 , 03:40 AM | #17
@Hugo , i can understand that you are frustrated , that the Madness tree has suffered some major remodelling , and i agree it looks bad , i mean really bad , but i would like to ask you to refrain from venting your anger in a way that not only diminishes the value of your statements but also , places the thread in the rank and file complaints threads that they go through every day .
If possible , i would like this thread to be one where people come and post constructive feedback on the improvement ideas that are exchanged in it so that the Devs can see that the community can be mature and can respond to the different changes with rational thoughs and constructive criticism.
With that said , i would like to encourage all of you to post changes that you think would be beneficial for the DPS specs for assassin.

P.S. : Initially i intended this thread to be oriented towards the Deception Spec , but lets hear about madness as well , since people had time to see what the spec is all about now , and had time to get some gear as well . So please post your thoughts ( in a civil manner ) ; your improvement ideas ; and your feedback on the ideas posted so far .
When you wish upon a star
I will kill you , near or far

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIY...eature=related

HugoBendtsen's Avatar


HugoBendtsen
05.06.2013 , 06:14 AM | #18
Ok, i hear you sentiment and will try again:

I actually think that deception, is probably the most fun assassin spec to play right now ( i play OffTandk /buhuu). I really like what they did to it. Replacing the steady cooldown discharge with 3x induction. recklessness is a really fun skill to play with and i love the way you build up stacks and control your dischagre that way.

The "secret" to this spec i feel, is using overcharge saber after you use recklessness. But i feel it to be unnatural. recklessness CD is 1min30seconds, overcharge saber is 2 minutes. It's and awesome combination to use:

1st: recklessness for free discharge,

then overload saber for the additional inductions to get the 2nd discharge built up fast.

And here's the discreptancy:
They dont share cooldowns, so you cant use them together and have a nice and timed attack. I think the cooldown of overload saber should be reduced to 1 mins30secs. That means more discharges and a better way to manage your boost buttons in an organized fashion.

When we raid, im 2-400dps below the marauders constantly. Assassination could get a boost to 10-15% instead of 6. In that way we could be finshiers: an arguement to bring assassin DPS to the raid: they finsish the last 30% fast. ATM the mechanic doesnt have the DPS to bring us on par with other classes, as previously stated by AP in the interview. It's just a fact by now: assassination and the talent below 30% doesnt have enough dps to make up for what we lose the first 70%

I think our DPS problems could be more than solved if you implemented ´various degress of the above.

On madness ..lets just not, it's broken, intentionally.

Kayriel's Avatar


Kayriel
05.06.2013 , 09:01 AM | #19
Thank you for your understanding and for your feedback , interesting ideas about Overcharge Saber , i can see how that would streamline the Deception DPS a bit , but i still think that we have some useless talents ( Nerve Wrecking and Deceptive Power comes to mind - i mean really 10 force for 1 talent point ?! come on... ) that could be either redesigned , moved to different trees that could actually have use for them or removed completely from the game.
Also , i still think that a crit chance increase to this tree , tied to Surging charge so that only deception can benefit from it , would be a way to go . This coupled with them bringing back the shock boost on VS , would pus us on par with the rest of the classes.
As for Madness..., like i previously said i haven't played it much , since i feel that Deception suits assassins better than any other tree ( high damage done fast , then move into the shadows again play-style type of deal ) , but i did mess around with the spec for a bit , and at the moment , i feed that byoware improved the dot style of the class , but took away the uniqueness of the spec and by that i mean that they took away the melee from a meele class , so i think that if they put a skill similar to Duplicity in the Madness tree , so that the sins that use the spec can actually feel like an assassin and use melee atack that is class specific and honestly the trademark of our class , it would go along way twards what madness should be like . I never played the spec after 2.0 , since , i feel like now its the "special" brother of a sorc version of the tree , since it does the same thing , but sins actually have to be in the 4 meter area for procs. But prior to 2.0 , the spec was very interesting to play , it did not have the burst that deception did , but it had a very nice setup , and was not complex at all once you get used to it , and that took about 1 week tops ( played it pvp and pve , although i don't have much time per day to play the game ) to actually comprehend how to play it at a decent level. It was a change of pace and a welcome one , and i feel that Bioware took that away for no reason at all , i mean this is not chess , where you actually need to use ur mind to think 3 moves ahead , so... yeah... it would be very nice if they would find a way to make mad sin the melee DPS they used to be .
When you wish upon a star
I will kill you , near or far

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIY...eature=related

HugoBendtsen's Avatar


HugoBendtsen
05.06.2013 , 09:17 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Kayriel View Post
Thank you for your understanding and for your feedback , interesting ideas about Overcharge Saber , i can see how that would streamline the Deception DPS a bit , but i still think that we have some useless talents ( Nerve Wrecking and Deceptive Power comes to mind - i mean really 10 force for 1 talent point ?! come on... ) that could be either redesigned , moved to different trees that could actually have use for them or removed completely from the game.
Also , i still think that a crit chance increase to this tree , tied to Surging charge so that only deception can benefit from it , would be a way to go . This coupled with them bringing back the shock boost on VS , would pus us on par with the rest of the classes.
Honestly, if shock is boosted, all the pvp'ers will whine about the imroved crits

I ike the finisher argument better ...get assassination up to 10%. They are used to getting ****ed by it and if it crits, there's a good chance someone will die anyway in pvp.

Guess they wont notice the Overload saber CD either.

The reason why i like inducation mechanic from VS better is, that im focused on the buffarea when i dps, so it fits the overall monitoring situation. another thing is freeing up space on the "important CD's bar area". I'm not so sure we need crit that bad. I just started getting 72 gear and my torparse says near 40 overall. U have to count in they corrigated for statinflation that will have a bigger impact sooner or later.

I think the 10 force frmo deceptive power is awesome to have. It gives me a bigger pool to regenerate in. And that's another sweet thing about deception, the force management is way better. I only rarely sabrestrike if i use my regen CD's correctly. Nevre wracking is for pvp and utter **** for pve, but amazingly, i always go for it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kayriel View Post
As for Madness..., like i previously said i haven't played it much , since i feel that Deception suits assassins better than any other tree ( high damage done fast , then move into the shadows again play-style type of deal ) , but i did mess around with the spec for a bit , and at the moment , i feed that byoware improved the dot style of the class , but took away the uniqueness of the spec and by that i mean that they took away the melee from a meele class , so i think that if they put a skill similar to Duplicity in the Madness tree , so that the sins that use the spec can actually feel like an assassin and use melee atack that is class specific and honestly the trademark of our class , it would go along way twards what madness should be like . I never played the spec after 2.0 , since , i feel like now its the "special" brother of a sorc version of the tree , since it does the same thing , but sins actually have to be in the 4 meter area for procs. But prior to 2.0 , the spec was very interesting to play , it did not have the burst that deception did , but it had a very nice setup , and was not complex at all once you get used to it , and that took about 1 week tops ( played it pvp and pve , although i don't have much time per day to play the game ) to actually comprehend how to play it at a decent level. It was a change of pace and a welcome one , and i feel that Bioware took that away for no reason at all , i mean this is not chess , where you actually need to use ur mind to think 3 moves ahead , so... yeah... it would be very nice if they would find a way to make mad sin the melee DPS they used to be .
It would be so easy. There's a million ways of giving it back to us, but they moved it to the tank spec. I'm tanking atm and tbh, i find it kind of annoying to frontal maul. It doesnt do any dmg and it seems like thrash clears the CD of shock better xD