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**TWO HOURS in Queue and no FP, at peak gaming time.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
**TWO HOURS in Queue and no FP, at peak gaming time.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.02.2013 , 01:32 PM | #61
The only boss you've no chance of beating while undergeared is the bonus boss in Hammer Station. Mechanics wise the only 'impossible' case is if you have 3 SWs for Cademimu as tank + 2 DPS as you'll often end up with all 3 shackled with no easy way to break all 3 shackles. Of course this doesn't stop people from giving up or kicking guys but that's human nature.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
05.02.2013 , 01:41 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by scraycroft View Post
lol did you just try to say TOR raids are difficult.

I mean I haven't played that other game since the BC expansion, but from what I remember the raids were far more difficult in that game (see SSC/BT/MH)

Ops in TOR are silly easy in comparison.
no, dear person with reading comprehension fail. what I said was that difficulty of random pugged raids in that other game is specifically and significantly scaled down to be completely face rollable. not to mention - raids are not nearly the same as they used to be back in BC days, as normal difficulty was made a lot more accessible, with actual challenge being hidden behind heroic difficulty and meta achievements. you really shouldn't speak unless you know what you are talking about.

how difficult ops are is up to debate, but I've yet to run one where you can completely ignore mechanics and still win on ANY difficulty. which is 90% of the time the case with raid finder version of raids in that other game. of course, the gear you get from that version is also lower quality, so it all adds up.

but the fact remains is that its a lot harder to PUG SUCCESSFULLY through random generator in TOR, vs that other game. so as a result, you have fewer people queueing.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
05.02.2013 , 01:44 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by DimmuJanKaarl View Post
Sorry for the wall of text but I have one last point: 4-man queueing should not be allowed with group finder, or at a minimum 4-man queuing should disqualified from the daily reward. You are simply exploiting a reward meant for pugs, plain and simple. You got a guild that can do runs? Great. Group finder is meant for pugs and its rewards meant for those that can -- rare as it may be -- successfully complete an op or flashpoint as a pug. If you want to take advantage of the group finder rewards, you should always be taking on at least one pickup. Hell, as a 3-man you have instant kick ability, and are benefitting the server as a whole by helping the newbs either learn the fights or understand why/how they are ill-equipped and get asked to drop or get kicked.

You many now proceed with annihilating me for having an opinion that may differ from your own.
eh? my understanding is - reward was for letting group finder chose a flashpoint for you at random, not for getting a random group? because you know, some people don't like specific flashpoints and might deselect them and even if they are still queueing solo and getting a pugged group, they don't get a completion reward.

there's no inherent virtue of running with random pugs vs running with friends. and I say that as someone who pugs 90% of the time.

Arlon_Nabarlly's Avatar


Arlon_Nabarlly
05.02.2013 , 01:47 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
The only boss you've no chance of beating while undergeared is the bonus boss in Hammer Station. Mechanics wise the only 'impossible' case is if you have 3 SWs for Cademimu as tank + 2 DPS as you'll often end up with all 3 shackled with no easy way to break all 3 shackles. Of course this doesn't stop people from giving up or kicking guys but that's human nature.
Still not impossible. Though it might take some coordination of CC breaks if all get shackled each time. I've run this several times with 3 Sith Warriors and never had serious issues.
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DimmuJanKaarl's Avatar


DimmuJanKaarl
05.02.2013 , 01:59 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
eh? my understanding is - reward was for letting group finder chose a flashpoint for you at random, not for getting a random group? because you know, some people don't like specific flashpoints and might deselect them and even if they are still queueing solo and getting a pugged group, they don't get a completion reward.

there's no inherent virtue of running with random pugs vs running with friends. and I say that as someone who pugs 90% of the time.
I exclusively run pugs, and I feel that the inherent virtue is in helping other players and meeting new people. Conversely, what is the inherent virtue of having the game choose a random fp? If you already have a group, just go pickup whatever fp you want and run it. What does making it random buy you? To me, the group finder feels like it was made for pugs, ergo the name "group finder", not "flashpoint finder". Not trying to give you a hard time, just my perspective. I just always got that feeling from previous discussions by devs that the group finder was intended to be used as a tool for those that needed a group in order to run endgame content. I was happy when I originally heard about it because i thought, "great! I can get into a group and actually meet new people, possibly even find new friends that I can run with again!" I actually like meeting new people. I, unlike so many i seems, actually don't mind wiping a few times while a new player gets his bearings: I'll have potentially made a new friend that will be that much better at their role in future runs. As I said, I too get annoyed with undergeared pelple who don't even *try* to read up and come prepared to fill their role. But I digress. Group finder should incentivize taking on new players helping people better themselves in their roles. Kicking/asking to leave is ok as long as the person understands why. But running group finder for the daily without actually using the group finder to *gasp* find a group is exploit imo, or at the very least abuse.
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Angedechu's Avatar


Angedechu
05.02.2013 , 02:08 PM | #66
I just got my third FP as a healer (instant queue this time) and frankly, I think people are exagerrating a bit.

I died once from tunnel vision on trash, and once on final boss because I missed on myself the debuff.

Those instances are not as bad as people claim.

scraycroft's Avatar


scraycroft
05.02.2013 , 02:20 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
no, dear person with reading comprehension fail. what I said was that difficulty of random pugged raids in that other game is specifically and significantly scaled down to be completely face rollable. not to mention - raids are not nearly the same as they used to be back in BC days, as normal difficulty was made a lot more accessible, with actual challenge being hidden behind heroic difficulty and meta achievements. you really shouldn't speak unless you know what you are talking about.
u mad bro?
Malystriz PuffinStuff
The Bastion
Quote: Originally Posted by ChewyYui View Post
They added alacrity to the gear so you can taunt things faster and accuracy is there so the fast taunts don't miss, fly off and taunt a tree or something.

Angedechu's Avatar


Angedechu
05.02.2013 , 02:48 PM | #68
God know about how I complain about this game, but PUGs are not as bad as people says.

I was able to heal three pugs directly after hitting 55, without any big issue.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.02.2013 , 02:59 PM | #69
Ok, I am going to post what I feel would be ways to help this problem.

LFG changes

- List of players qued with desired flashpoint/s listed and role.
- Allow you to choose primary and secondary role and ask if you want that role with a popup if it can make a group. Refusing the secondary role does not remove you from the que.
- Ability to "que ignore" players to avoid being placed in groups with them.

Skill Trees

- Have all skill trees and abilities in those trees refocused to three specific roles...tank, healer, dps.
- Allow players to store a second build and switch if desired on the fly with a cooldown.
- Give certain classes "best as" 10 percent boost ability in flashpoints and operations

Trooper/BH - Best as tanks, get bonus to damage mitigation and agro if a tank
Knight/Warrior - Best as dps, bonus to energy regeneration and damage output if dps
and
Smugglers/Agents - Best as CC dps Hybrid, bonus to tech and cc duration if dps
Consular/Sorcerors - Best as healers, bonus to health regeneration and healing if healer

So for each class any roll is viable, but the best roles for each class are rewarded, and they have the best performance overall and ESPECIALLY in flashpoints and operations in those classes.

Solo Bolster mode for Flashpoints/Sidekick mode

- Allow players to bolster themselves,similar to the PVP bolster, to run Flashpoints with only their companion after being qued but not picked up for 30 minutes. Maximum bolster brackets would be allowed to prevent players from running flashpoints far above their current level.
- Allow players to "sidekick" themselves, allowing the game to reduce their level (and disable abilities) so they can run lower flashpoints with other players if desired and still get decent rewards.

I feel all three changes would solve the lion's share of problems with the current que system.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
05.02.2013 , 04:13 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by DimmuJanKaarl View Post
I exclusively run pugs, and I feel that the inherent virtue is in helping other players and meeting new people. Conversely, what is the inherent virtue of having the game choose a random fp? If you already have a group, just go pickup whatever fp you want and run it. What does making it random buy you? To me, the group finder feels like it was made for pugs, ergo the name "group finder", not "flashpoint finder". Not trying to give you a hard time, just my perspective. I just always got that feeling from previous discussions by devs that the group finder was intended to be used as a tool for those that needed a group in order to run endgame content. I was happy when I originally heard about it because i thought, "great! I can get into a group and actually meet new people, possibly even find new friends that I can run with again!" I actually like meeting new people. I, unlike so many i seems, actually don't mind wiping a few times while a new player gets his bearings: I'll have potentially made a new friend that will be that much better at their role in future runs. As I said, I too get annoyed with undergeared pelple who don't even *try* to read up and come prepared to fill their role. But I digress. Group finder should incentivize taking on new players helping people better themselves in their roles. Kicking/asking to leave is ok as long as the person understands why. But running group finder for the daily without actually using the group finder to *gasp* find a group is exploit imo, or at the very least abuse.
well I guess its nice that it makes you feel good about yourself and all, but personally I don't pug to "help other people" I pug because I don't always have friends to run with at the time when I feel like running something. I'm nice to people in pugs because I'm a decent human being and because I treat people the way I want to be treated, not because its some how virtuous or needed or whatever else. and unlike you, I actually don't expect people to have read up on the content beforehand. pretty much all of the pugged content can be explain before you make a pull. I've had encounters explained to me, heck, I had no idea about shackles in HM candemimu until we got to the last boss.

I've ran with multiple people for whom something was a first flashpoint. I've ran with people wearing blue and green quest gear. I've ran with people who didn't completely understand the difference in spec and didn't understand how to gear and what stats they needed. i didn't join group finder to help them, but I helped them because they were open to be helped (not everyone wants help you know) the kick function has a window where you put in the reason for a kick. most people that I've ran with still say something in chat before they start the kicking. one exception being disconnect, that lasts longer than 5 minutes. I've made friends in pugs. I've gotten guild invites through pugs. but I never saw them as charity

and it might be your opinion, but its not an exploit. because the dungeon IS still random. and the intent of the group finder wasn't just to help pugs, it was to help everyone who runs flashpoints including friends. and its working as intended. you blocking people from having all 4 friends queue to get their daily is not going to get more people to pug. it might actually get less of them, because some people will never pug, no matter what, and other people might stop pugging in disgust at the system suddenly penalizing people for "gasp" having made friends and wanting to run with those friends.