Pay to Win???

I don't actually mind the game company providing a system where you can essentially buy credits through them. I think the packs are dirty, but I have no issue with armor suits being up their for cash and I actually like that you can then turn around and sell them for credits if you want.

Now basic mmos items like armor dye kits, barbers, that's becoming ridiculous. They are adding very little to the base game but they are adding things to the cartel market regularly.

lol its so funny people trying to justify biowares pay2win cash shop. coming up with all these silly notions that its only pay to win if you get something you cant get by any other means.

Its very very simple. You dont need to come up with any rules or anything.
Pay2Win =
Pay - Pay real money
Win - Win!
You pay real money, sell cartel items for in game money and you win!
Paying for credits with real money allows you to buy anything in the game. You can buy any advantage you want that normally would require griding. If that isnt winning what is??
I sold some cartel packs and now have millions of credits at lvl 20. I can now buy any gear I want, any mods, craft as much as I want, I have won!
So as you can see, yes biowares cash shop is pay to win. Sorry if that bothers.

Well thanks for admitting that its not P2W its "Pay2SaveTime".

What? You don't need to spend your 500CC a month on anything related to gearing up. If you are looking at gearing up you are Level 53-55 in which case there is no reason that you should not be at 450 on your crew skills. That makes it pretty easy to craft the things that you need - because you don't really need Mk-9 Augments to statr running the 55 content.

I have played my JK to 55, I run 3-4 FPs a week, do Toborro's Courtyard, some of the dailies (max 5 each day) and the weeklies on Makeb. Since hitting 55 the Friday after early access started I have made about 1.5 million credits (bought some augments, sent some to an alt and bought some crystals and cosmetics for alts). I am in a mix of 69 and 66 gear, all augmented. If I wanted to I could certainly start running SM 55 Ops.

I don't log in every day and I never play for more than 4 hours.


Cool rare loot drops require you to put in the hundreds of hours you complain about above (either finding them or raising the credits to buy them). Gearing up in SWTOR is easy and not time consuming.

Except Augments and the upcoming crafted armour Dyes of course.

Your personal, and skewed, definition of P2W is irrelevant. The real world definition of P2W is the one I mentioned above and it does not apply to SWTOR.

Your own special pet definition of "pay to win" doesn't actually change what it really means.

If they ever put the best pve or pvp gear on the cartel market (with stats), then we'll have a problem.

And here's another person that defines winning in an MMO as:

"I get to drive around the fleet in my big speeder wearing phat lewtz"

:scoff:

lol thats not my definition of winning, but for the kind of person that enjoys that, then yes, they have paid to win with biowares cash shop.
Its funny, people trying to tell you there is a "real world" definition of winning.
Winning can be whatever they achieve by paying, it doesnt have to be end game gear. (Even that can be bought by paying for runs with cash shop bought credits) and biowares cash shop allows you to pay to win alot of different things by giving you a quick short cut.

Bzzt. Wrong.

There is a definition of Pay 2 Win in the real world, and what you described is not it.

Tell me, what happens after you "win" in an MMO. Do you go play another game?