Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Acc vs Surge, with mathematical proof

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Acc vs Surge, with mathematical proof

MGNMTTRN's Avatar


MGNMTTRN
04.26.2013 , 01:58 AM | #1
Edited May 13, 2013:
Here's a compilation of the results of my work in this thread. The thread is relatively short and all of these results are found somewhere within the first 2 pages:
  • Considering only acc vs surge: most every class wants 100% acc, dump the rest of your enh contents into surge or alac. The only exception to this is if you have an effective crit rate in excess of 30%, 181% base surge, and 91% base acc. In that case you still want 7 acc enhs, or 504 acc rating.
  • Generally, DPS are going to want between 50 and 100 points in crit
  • Generally, healers will want about 100 points in crit, since they will have higher surge ratings
  • Mainstat augments are superior to power augments for DPS and healers

======

I was inspired by the following threadsto attempt to solve the question "how much accuracy should I have?"

If we track what happens to each point of damage, we expect some damage to be outright lost due to misses, and we expect some damage to be boosted by our surge and crit. The mathematical expression for this expected damage is

E[dam] = 0*(1-acc) + 1*(acc)*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)

for 1 point of damage. And our expectation for more than 1 point of damage is E[c*dam] = c*E[dam] = c*0*(1-acc) + c*(acc)*((crit*surge) + (1-crit)*1)

We'll assume we can only use tier 30/level 69 Adept (+power, +72 surge), Acute (+crit, +72 acc), Initiative (+power, +72 acc), or Battle (+crit, +72 surge) enhancements. Note that characters have 10 spaces in which they can gain acc or surge (ear, 2 implants, mainhand, offhand, 5 set bonus pieces). Note also that if an enh doesn't have acc, it'll have surge. So we can have up to 720 points in surge, and we'll necessarily have this many points in acc: 720 - points in surge. Note also that I'm assuming you have a crit rate of 25%. This is not a safe assumption at all, so I promise I will address concerns about varying crit rates. I'll also assume that your toons get the +1% acc and +1% surge buffs from companions, and address bonuses to crit, surge, and acc below.

Anyway, so now our E[dam] function is a function of acc, crit, and surge... except acc and surge are functions of one another, and we assume for now that crit = 0.25. So our E[dam] function is really only a function of one variable, which can be the number of points that you put in surge, and which will be a multiple of 72. Since this E[dam] is a continuous function of one variable and it only has 10 values that we really care about, it's quite easy to maximize/optimize/determine how many points in surge will get you the best performance.

Let #acc vary from 0 to 10, and #surge = 10 - #acc.
Let acc_points = #acc* 72, surge_points = #surge * 72.

Let acc_rating = 0.9 + 0.01 + 30 * (1 - (1 - (0.01/0.3))^((acc_points/55)/1.2))/100
Let surge_rating = 0.5 + 0.01 + 30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((surge_points/55)/0.22))/100
E[dam] = 0*(1-acc_rating) + 1*acc_rating*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)
And now the results of this calculation:
Code:
# acc	accr		accb	acct	#	surge	surgeb	surget	maximizing E[dam] =0*(1-acc) + acc*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)				
0.0000	0.0000	0.0000	0.9400	720.0000	0.2601	0.7701	0.8860				
1.0000	72.0000	0.0109	0.9509	648.0000	0.2512	0.7612	0.8941				
2.0000	144.0000	0.0214	0.9614	576.0000	0.2403	0.7503	0.9014				
3.0000	216.0000	0.0315	0.9715	504.0000	0.2269	0.7369	0.9076				
4.0000	288.0000	0.0413	0.9813	432.0000	0.2106	0.7206	0.9127				
5.0000	360.0000	0.0506	0.9906	360.0000	0.1906	0.7006	0.9165				
6.0000	432.0000	0.0597	0.9997	288.0000	0.1661	0.6761	0.9188				
7.0000	504.0000	0.0684	1.0084	216.0000	0.1362	0.6462	0.9192				
8.0000	576.0000	0.0768	1.0168	144.0000	0.0996	0.6096	0.9176				
9.0000	648.0000	0.0849	1.0249	72.0000	0.0548	0.5648	0.9134				
10.0000	720.0000	0.0927	1.0327	0.0000	0.0000	0.5100	0.9062
Another way of thinking about this: if you spec for +3 acc, once you get acc to 100%, dump everything else in surge. I've italicized the lines in which you'd be boosting your accuracy past 100%, and I've bolded the line in which you maximize your damage for some allotment of surge and acc.

If you're curious: the turnover point is the same when you have 91 base acc instead of 94 base acc, because acc points specced don't count toward your rating:
Code:
# acc	accr		accb	acct		#surge	surgeb	surget	maximizing E[dam] =0*(1-acc) + acc*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)	
0.0000	0.0000	0.0000	0.9100	720.0000	0.2601	0.7701	0.8577	
1.0000	72.0000	0.0109	0.9209	648.0000	0.2512	0.7612	0.8659	
2.0000	144.0000	0.0214	0.9314	576.0000	0.2403	0.7503	0.8732	
3.0000	216.0000	0.0315	0.9415	504.0000	0.2269	0.7369	0.8796	
4.0000	288.0000	0.0413	0.9513	432.0000	0.2106	0.7206	0.8848	
5.0000	360.0000	0.0506	0.9606	360.0000	0.1906	0.7006	0.8887	
6.0000	432.0000	0.0597	0.9697	288.0000	0.1661	0.6761	0.8912	
7.0000	504.0000	0.0684	0.9784	216.0000	0.1362	0.6462	0.8919	
8.0000	576.0000	0.0768	0.9868	144.0000	0.0996	0.6096	0.8905	
9.0000	648.0000	0.0849	0.9949	72.0000	0.0548	0.5648	0.8867	
10.0000	720.0000	0.0927	1.0027	0.0000	0.0000	0.5100	0.8799
You might ask, as an Assault Commando I spec for +3 accuracy and +30% surge on all my attacks; does this still apply to me? It is easy to change the base surge to +0.81 and accuracy to base +0.94.
Code:
# acc	accr		accb	acct	#	surge	surgeb	surget	maximizing E[dam] =0*(1-acc) + acc*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)				
0.0000	0.0000	0.0000	0.9400	720.0000	0.2601	1.0701	0.9565				
1.0000	72.0000	0.0109	0.9509	648.0000	0.2512	1.0612	0.9654				
2.0000	144.0000	0.0214	0.9614	576.0000	0.2403	1.0503	0.9735				
3.0000	216.0000	0.0315	0.9715	504.0000	0.2269	1.0369	0.9805				
4.0000	288.0000	0.0413	0.9813	432.0000	0.2106	1.0206	0.9863				
5.0000	360.0000	0.0506	0.9906	360.0000	0.1906	1.0006	0.9908				
6.0000	432.0000	0.0597	0.9997	288.0000	0.1661	0.9761	0.9937				
7.0000	504.0000	0.0684	1.0084	216.0000	0.1362	0.9462	0.9949				
8.0000	576.0000	0.0768	1.0168	144.0000	0.0996	0.9096	0.9939				
9.0000	648.0000	0.0849	1.0249	72.0000	0.0548	0.8648	0.9903				
10.0000	720.0000	0.0927	1.0327	0.0000	0.0000	0.8100	0.9837
but the result does not change. The maximum point of damage is still 7 acc enhs, or just after you achieve 100% accuracy.

What DOES heavily influence the result is crit rate, which has until now been held at a constant 25%. While this is going to be approximately where your melee/force crit rate is at level 69 gear, your tech/force crit may be buffed up to 28% already and you may also benefit from autocrits (smash), crit bonuses to specific attacks (Assault Vanguard elemental attacks, Marksman Sniper), and from crit buffs (Vanguard Battle Focus, Shadow tank project) etc. So here are the results for 28% crit
Code:
# acc	accr		accb	acct	#	surge	surgeb	surget	maximizing E[dam] =0*(1-acc) + acc*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)			
0.0000	0.0000	0.0000	0.9400	720.0000	0.2601	0.7701	0.8795			
1.0000	72.0000	0.0109	0.9509	648.0000	0.2512	0.7612	0.8873			
2.0000	144.0000	0.0214	0.9614	576.0000	0.2403	0.7503	0.8942			
3.0000	216.0000	0.0315	0.9715	504.0000	0.2269	0.7369	0.8999			
4.0000	288.0000	0.0413	0.9813	432.0000	0.2106	0.7206	0.9045			
5.0000	360.0000	0.0506	0.9906	360.0000	0.1906	0.7006	0.9076			
6.0000	432.0000	0.0597	0.9997	288.0000	0.1661	0.6761	0.9090			
7.0000	504.0000	0.0684	1.0084	216.0000	0.1362	0.6462	0.9085			
8.0000	576.0000	0.0768	1.0168	144.0000	0.0996	0.6096	0.9057			
9.0000	648.0000	0.0849	1.0249	72.0000	0.0548	0.5648	0.9000			
10.0000	720.0000	0.0927	1.0327	0.0000	0.0000	0.5100	0.8911
and 30% crit
Code:
# acc	accr		accb	acct	#	surge	surgeb	surget	maximizing E[dam] =0*(1-acc) + acc*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)	
0.0000	0.0000	0.0000	0.9400	720.0000	0.2601	0.7701	0.8752	
1.0000	72.0000	0.0109	0.9509	648.0000	0.2512	0.7612	0.8828	
2.0000	144.0000	0.0214	0.9614	576.0000	0.2403	0.7503	0.8894	
3.0000	216.0000	0.0315	0.9715	504.0000	0.2269	0.7369	0.8948	
4.0000	288.0000	0.0413	0.9813	432.0000	0.2106	0.7206	0.8990	
5.0000	360.0000	0.0506	0.9906	360.0000	0.1906	0.7006	0.9017	
6.0000	432.0000	0.0597	0.9997	288.0000	0.1661	0.6761	0.9026	
7.0000	504.0000	0.0684	1.0084	216.0000	0.1362	0.6462	0.9014	
8.0000	576.0000	0.0768	1.0168	144.0000	0.0996	0.6096	0.8977	
9.0000	648.0000	0.0849	1.0249	72.0000	0.0548	0.5648	0.8911	
10.0000	720.0000	0.0927	1.0327	0.0000	0.0000	0.5100	0.8809
Which crit% should you use? I recommend you upload logs to torparse.com and see what your effective crit rate is. On sustained fights on my Vanguard DPS I'm getting a solid 30.5% crit rate, while on moving fights it's closer to 26%. And Vanguards are well-known for their high crit rates. Also note that the deciding factor here is really your crit%; with a low crit no matter how much acc you spec for you'll want to get 7 acc enhs, while with higher crit your surge becomes so valuable that your recommended acc enh count drops all the way to 6.

This is using the formulae for surge and acc from Keyboard Ninja's thread, linked above. I did indeed check to ensure that my surge and acc functions were predicting the correct values on my Vanguard DPS. This accuracy-heavy result corroborates KeyBoardNinja's discovery that surge has even harsher DRs in 2.0 and should also be intuitive (crit dropped, surge dropped -> acc is comparatively better). Please let me know if you spot any errors, as I did post an enormous volume and I'm sure I did something wrong.

Don't link to this thread or consult this thread and then go babbling about soft caps. There is no soft cap at which we stop putting points in surge. There is a point at which surge becomes less useful than accuracy, and it's at about 216 points in surge.

Assumptions and ackknowledgements:
  • ranged and tech attacks now have the same miss% on bosses
  • almost all classes have a free attack that they use when they run out of other options; this free attack has a -10% accuracy debuff (base 80% accuracy) which would positively weight accuracy even more. However, this autoattack is hardly something we should optimize our damage for, because it does so little damage compared to our non-free filler (Ion Pulse, Double Strike/Clairvoyant, Charged Bolts/Grav Round, Snipe, and such) and maybe 25% of the damage that a class's hard-hitting attacks do. Furthermore, to counterbalance this accuracy loss that we're not optimizing for, most classes spec for autocrits which increase the value of surge
  • I wasn't able to level my toons until maybe two weeks ago, so it may turn out that 25% crit rate is not a good base assumption. If you post in this thread with details about what you'd like me to account for (autocrits, specced surge, higher mainstat/crit contributions than around 28%) I'd be happy to account for them. Please post your class, spec, your melee/ranged crit%, your tech/force crit%, your crit rating, your surge%, your surge rating, your acc%, accuracy rating, and give me some way of estimating your effective crit rate. For example if you were a smash warrior I'd need a torparse link to estimate your total crit%.
  • In practice your damage output is just going to be sort of a gaussian about a center. If you put in 5 surge enhs and then get 2500 DPS on a dummy and then switch to 3 surge enhs and get 2450 DPS on a dummy, it's not my fault. The variability in DPS parses that you'll see is enormous even when you play in exactly the same conditions for 20 minutes, and I should also point out that nobody is going to play with the same style for 40 minutes. What this will do is set you up to perform well; whether the dice fall in your favor has surprisingly little to do with your gear.
  • I need more data, and I need people to seriously review this work, and I need people to ask questions. If you have a different model, please post it. If you want me to reevaluate something, just let me know what it is.
  • Once people (ie this poster) start hitting full 69 I'll start worrying about the allocations for full level 72 gear. The gist of it is going to be that surge will be better, since you'll have slightly more mainstat and crit.

MGNMTTRN's Avatar


MGNMTTRN
04.26.2013 , 01:59 AM | #2
edit 5/12/2013: I address acc vs surge and crit vs power together here, on the second page of this thread.

I address mainstat vs power augments and healer itemization here, also on the second page of this thread.

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
04.26.2013 , 02:36 PM | #3
interesting analysis. i have been using the following toy model of dps:

(1-miss_chance)*(average_hit+main+power+force_power)* (1+crit*surge)/(1-alacrity)

miss_chance=fraction_melee*(1.1-melee_accuracy)+fraction_force*(1.1-force_accuracy)
melee_accuracy=accuracy boost+0.9+0.3*(1-(1-0.01/(0.3))^((1/55)*accuracy_rating/(1.2)))
force_accuracy=accuracy boost+1+0.3*(1-(1-0.01/(0.3))^((1/55)*accuracy_rating/(1.2)))
average hit is determined by taking a parse with known values for everything else and solving for average hit
main=0.2*(1+main_boost)*main_rating
power=0.23*(1+power_boost)*power_rating
force_power=0.23*(1+power_boost)*force_power_ratin g
crit=crit_boost+0.05+0.3 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( crit_rating / 55 ) / 0.9 ) )+0.2 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.2 ) )^( ( main_rating*(1+main_boost) /55 ) / 5.5 ) )
surge=surge_boost+0.5+0.3*(1-(1-0.01/(0.3))^((1/55)*surge_rating/(0.22)))
alacrity=alacrity_boost+0.3*(1-(1-0.01/(0.3))^((1/55)*alacrity_rating/(1.25)))

so i get effective crit_boost from parses and using SUM_i(crit_chance_i*fraction_dps_i). where i is for each ability
effecttive surge boost is really hard to get out of the parses, but if you have abilities that have surge_boost_i with fraction_dps_i, effective surge_boost=SUM(surge_boost_i*fraction_dps_i), where surge_boost_i will just be your surge from surge rating unless you get something from a tree/proc.

i have tried using an alacrity matters term as a coefficent for alacrity before(so if 30% of your dps comes from abilities affected by alacrity, then you use 0.3), but have removed it now that it alacrity reduces the gcd, but it may need to be added back in.

what i have found is that stat weights for maxing dps heavily depend on the average hit value (i used to use a 1 there when i first started this type of analysis for healing). this has mainly to do with the average hit value affecting the power/ critbalance and that affecting the surge balance. there is also no bonus damage coefficent here, which is really bad since it can both diminish and exagerate the benifits of power. if we had what some people call coefficents per second (cps) for each build, then that could be appended to the (main+force_power+power term), to give (main+force_power+power term)*cps... i think. pretty short sighted, but without simulators, this is as far as a rough model can get without simulating a rotation full force.

typically i will get rid of the main, power and force power boosts since people give me the final value, so i can just plug those in and get rid of the boosts so i can find balance between surge/accuracy and alacrity. i can also just solve for power_rating by diving their power by 1.05 for a crit/power analysis. i have my spreadsheet set up to give me optimal power, crit, accuracy, surge and alacrity, based on gear assumptions about sum of power+crit and sum of alacrity+accuracy+surge possible.

i have found that alacrity is better (use more rating) than surge for quite a few builds.

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
04.27.2013 , 01:52 AM | #4
you are forgetting the fact that alacrity doesn't reduce cooldowns; so for most classes, alacrity is not a straight percentage increase, since it allows you to finish a rotation faster, but does not allow you to start a new one any faster. As a consequence, it just allows to do another autoattack or filler(snipe, vicious slash, etc). which have rather low dmg/gcd.
It would be better to just parse the average damage of an energy neutral rotation, add enough alacrity to allow for 1 additional gcd before the new rotation and add in the damage from an additional basic or filler depending on energy and compare that to the damage from the lost surge.

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
04.27.2013 , 10:46 AM | #5
i have seen others use that methodology before, but i dont really agree with it. maybe some classes have no choice but to auto attack, but most can do a tracer missile, snipe etc.

alacrity reduces the gcd for instants, and anything that is cast will be able to beat the gcd for the next ability. so your next ability will ALWAYS come faster... more actions per minute.

like i said, i could add an alacrity matters term where i take % of dps from casts that would have activation time under 1.5 seconds, and channeled abilities (here alacrity directly increases dps) and use that.

Delta_V's Avatar


Delta_V
04.28.2013 , 11:10 AM | #6
Ok, I haven't had time to go through everything yet, but I've got a question about your first equation, specifically:

Quote:
E[dam] = 0*(1-acc) + 1*(acc)*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)
In this equation, what are you using for Surge? If you have a surge of 50%, are you using 0.5, or 1.5? Because it looks like you're using the former (unless I'm reading your data wrong), but I'm pretty sure you should be using the latter.

Let me just break the equation down to make sure I understand everything:

0*(1-acc) = the proportion of attacks that miss, and thus do zero damage

1*(acc) = the proportion of attacks that hit

(1-crit)*1 = the proportion of attacks that do not critically hit, and thus do normal damage

crit*surge = the proportion of attacks that do critically hit, and thus have the surge multiplier applied. But if you have a surge of 50%, in this equation, you would have (crit*0.5), which would mean you're critical hits are only doing 50% normal damage, when in reality it should be (crit*1.5). This would be expressed by (crit*(1+surge)).

Now, if your equation already handles surge as (1+ surge_bonus), and thus always has surge > 1, everything makes sense. The way I was interpreting the equation, though, it looks like you are multiplying the critical hits by just the surge bonus, which would be effectively reducing their damage.

However, the way I wrote it also has the benefit of letting you simplify the equation. If it's written as 1*(acc)*((1-crit)*1 + crit*(1+surge)), you can expand (1-crit)*1 to (1 - crit) and crit*(1+surge) to (crit + crit*surge). Since these get added together, the crit terms cancel, and you are left with (1+ crit*surge). The final equation would then be:

E[dam] = 0*(1-acc) + (acc)*(1+ crit*surge)

Where acc, crit, and surge are just the values you see in your character window in game (but in decimals, rather than percentages).


EDIT:

Ok, it definitely looks like something is not quite right in your equation. In your data, E[dam] never goes above 1.00, which doesn't make sense. Let's stop thinking about numbers for a second, and just use logic: if you have 100% accuracy, you won't lose any damage to misses, so you should be doing your nominal damage, without accounting for crit/surge. Since crit and surge are strictly beneficial, your actual damage should be higher than the nominal damage, meaning E[dam] should be greater than 1.

Since this is not the case in your data, the only explanation I can come up with is that you are multiplying your critical hits by just the surge bonus. Since your critical hits actually do more damage than normal attacks, you need to multiply them by surge bonus + 1.

MGNMTTRN's Avatar


MGNMTTRN
04.28.2013 , 02:13 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Delta_V View Post
crit*surge = the proportion of attacks that do critically hit, and thus have the surge multiplier applied. But if you have a surge of 50%, in this equation, you would have (crit*0.5), which would mean you're critical hits are only doing 50% normal damage, when in reality it should be (crit*1.5). This would be expressed by (crit*(1+surge)).

...

E[dam] = 0*(1-acc) + (acc)*(1+ crit*surge)

Where acc, crit, and surge are just the values you see in your character window in game (but in decimals, rather than percentages).
You are right, I have added 1 to my base surge to correct this. As you said, previously crit damage was being miscalculated as doing less damage than a non-crit attack, so the best way to maximize damage would have been to drop crit to 0%. I was wondering why my expectation for 1 point of damage was less than 1 point of damage outright, but I was hoping I was missing a lot of attacks.

I also added a min(acct, 1) check to make sure we're not rewarded for going past 100% accuracy.

The simplified equation might be less clear to some readers.

If you manage to drop crit down to 20%, have 151% surge base, and 91% base acc, things change a bit. At those amounts, since you have so little acc and you're not critting much, you still need to bring acc to 100%.
Code:
# acc	accr		accb	acct		surger	surgeb	surget	maximizing E[dam] =0*(1-acc) + acc*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)
0.0000	0.0000	0.0000	0.9100	720.0000	0.2601	1.7701	1.0502
1.0000	72.0000	0.0109	0.9209	648.0000	0.2512	1.7612	1.0611
2.0000	144.0000	0.0214	0.9314	576.0000	0.2403	1.7503	1.0711
3.0000	216.0000	0.0315	0.9415	504.0000	0.2269	1.7369	1.0803
4.0000	288.0000	0.0413	0.9513	432.0000	0.2106	1.7206	1.0883
5.0000	360.0000	0.0506	0.9606	360.0000	0.1906	1.7006	1.0953
6.0000	432.0000	0.0597	0.9697	288.0000	0.1661	1.6761	1.1008
7.0000	504.0000	0.0684	0.9784	216.0000	0.1362	1.6462	1.1049
8.0000	576.0000	0.0768	0.9868	144.0000	0.0996	1.6096	1.1071
9.0000	648.0000	0.0849	0.9949	72.0000	0.0548	1.5648	1.1073
10.0000	720.0000	0.0927	1.0000	0.0000	0.0000	1.5100	1.1020
Here is the updated table for 25% crit, base 151% surge, and 91% acc. Since you don't spec for +3 acc, you want to max out your acc at 100%/576 rating, and just get 2 surge enhs.
Code:
# acc	accr		accb	acct		surger	surgeb	surget	maximizing E[dam] =0*(1-acc) + acc*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)
0.0000	0.0000	0.0000	0.9100	720.0000	0.2601	1.7701	1.0852
1.0000	72.0000	0.0109	0.9209	648.0000	0.2512	1.7612	1.0961
2.0000	144.0000	0.0214	0.9314	576.0000	0.2403	1.7503	1.1061
3.0000	216.0000	0.0315	0.9415	504.0000	0.2269	1.7369	1.1150
4.0000	288.0000	0.0413	0.9513	432.0000	0.2106	1.7206	1.1226
5.0000	360.0000	0.0506	0.9606	360.0000	0.1906	1.7006	1.1289
6.0000	432.0000	0.0597	0.9697	288.0000	0.1661	1.6761	1.1336
7.0000	504.0000	0.0684	0.9784	216.0000	0.1362	1.6462	1.1365
8.0000	576.0000	0.0768	0.9868	144.0000	0.0996	1.6096	1.1372
9.0000	648.0000	0.0849	0.9949	72.0000	0.0548	1.5648	1.1354
10.0000	720.0000	0.0927	1.0000	0.0000	0.0000	1.5100	1.1275
Here is the result for 30% crit, 181% surge base before rating, and 94% acc base before rating. This will be more similar to what an Assault Vanguard or Commando would gear for, or a Marksman sniper, and some knight specs as well. This higher crit rate and +3 acc pushes your maximizing point down to 6 accuracy enhs, but still 100%.
Code:
# acc	accr		accb	acct		surger	surgeb	surget	maximizing E[dam] =0*(1-acc) + acc*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)
0.0000	0.0000	0.0000	0.9400	720.0000	0.2601	2.0701	1.2418
1.0000	72.0000	0.0109	0.9509	648.0000	0.2512	2.0612	1.2536
2.0000	144.0000	0.0214	0.9614	576.0000	0.2403	2.0503	1.2643
3.0000	216.0000	0.0315	0.9715	504.0000	0.2269	2.0369	1.2737
4.0000	288.0000	0.0413	0.9813	432.0000	0.2106	2.0206	1.2817
5.0000	360.0000	0.0506	0.9906	360.0000	0.1906	2.0006	1.2880
6.0000	432.0000	0.0597	0.9997	288.0000	0.1661	1.9761	1.2925
7.0000	504.0000	0.0684	1.0000	216.0000	0.1362	1.9462	1.2839
8.0000	576.0000	0.0768	1.0000	144.0000	0.0996	1.9096	1.2729
9.0000	648.0000	0.0849	1.0000	72.0000	0.0548	1.8648	1.2594
10.0000	720.0000	0.0927	1.0000	0.0000	0.0000	1.8100	1.2430
This is for 30% crit, 181% surge, and 91% acc. Finally you don't need to max acc out at 100% for this spec.
Code:
# acc	accr		accb	acct		surger	surgeb	surget	maximizing E[dam] =0*(1-acc) + acc*(crit*surge + (1-crit)*1)
0.0000	0.0000	0.0000	0.9100	720.0000	0.2601	2.0701	1.2508
1.0000	72.0000	0.0109	0.9209	648.0000	0.2512	2.0612	1.2629
2.0000	144.0000	0.0214	0.9314	576.0000	0.2403	2.0503	1.2738
3.0000	216.0000	0.0315	0.9415	504.0000	0.2269	2.0369	1.2832
4.0000	288.0000	0.0413	0.9513	432.0000	0.2106	2.0206	1.2910
5.0000	360.0000	0.0506	0.9606	360.0000	0.1906	2.0006	1.2971
6.0000	432.0000	0.0597	0.9697	288.0000	0.1661	1.9761	1.3010
7.0000	504.0000	0.0684	0.9784	216.0000	0.1362	1.9462	1.3025
8.0000	576.0000	0.0768	0.9868	144.0000	0.0996	1.9096	1.3010
9.0000	648.0000	0.0849	0.9949	72.0000	0.0548	1.8648	1.2961
10.0000	720.0000	0.0927	1.0000	0.0000	0.0000	1.8100	1.2835
I'd love to move toward a model which takes the following vectors: proportions/frequencies of attacks, base crit rates, surge from spec, and maximizes that weighted average of damage, instead of just 1 dummy damage with fixed crit, surge, and acc. Then I could give results better tailored to each spec.

The results seem to favor acc pretty strongly, which I find suspicious.

Delta_V's Avatar


Delta_V
04.28.2013 , 02:40 PM | #8
Glad to see that it got sorted out. I wasn't really expecting that to change the relative value of surge vs. accuracy, and it looks like it didn't, but just wanted to make sure everything was set up right.

As for accuracy vs. surge, I'm pretty sure that's the way it's been for as long as I remember. Stack accuracy to 100%, then surge until you hit diminishing returns, then if you've got any slots left, stack power.

SEANeD's Avatar


SEANeD
04.28.2013 , 07:15 PM | #9
On my madness sorc should I need any accuracy? I'm at 101% now and could go to 103% but I would have to lose sap strength and either 1 percent crit or alacrity from healing tree. I only pvp and I read in another thread that it doesn't make as big a difference in pvp

Delta_V's Avatar


Delta_V
04.28.2013 , 10:26 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by SEANeD View Post
On my madness sorc should I need any accuracy? I'm at 101% now and could go to 103% but I would have to lose sap strength and either 1 percent crit or alacrity from healing tree. I only pvp and I read in another thread that it doesn't make as big a difference in pvp
Well, I'm not an expert on PVP, but I know that accuracy was supposed to become important for all dps classes in 2.0. Of course, alacrity was supposed to be useful for all classes now, too, and look how that turned out. I'm pretty sure Madness Sorcs want accuracy in PVE, but I don't know if that applies to PVP as well. That said, even if you do need accuracy you should never push your basic accuracy past 100% (and your special accuracy past 110%), since those points would be better spent in surge.

This might be a question better suited for the Sorc forums, since they'll know more about the class specifics.