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Snipers and Marauders shouldn't do more damage as it stands and here is why (PVE)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Snipers and Marauders shouldn't do more damage as it stands and here is why (PVE)

bbare's Avatar


bbare
04.07.2013 , 06:56 AM | #1
They have the best utility. Another dps class really cannot compete with the sniper shield bubble or the marauder predation and bloodthirst.

It becomes a disadvantage to bring any other ranged or melee class, keeping gear and player skill constant. I understand that they cannot do anything but dps, but if you are going to give them the best dps, don't give them the best utility.

I would like class utility to be redesigned so that every advanced class has a role in an operation. Snipers/Marauders can be the nukers and put out the most damage, but take away their group buffs and give them to other classes so bringing along a balanced group of classes becomes an advantage.
The Vanity Legacy

Hansojojo's Avatar


Hansojojo
04.07.2013 , 07:26 AM | #2
Juggernauts have more power than marauders but marauder wins for best dps like snipers.But it would be helpful if the best empire tank can have more tanking abillites and stands out,and the best dps has th highest damage and stands out.
The Stronghold Legacy - 55 Sith Assassin , 55 Jedi Guardian.

KhealThar's Avatar


KhealThar
04.14.2013 , 04:40 PM | #3
There would be no reason to play a marauder if they didn't have the utlity. A Jugg or Sorcerer can spec into healing to get a slot in a raid group. A marauder just brings damage and the utility it currently has. Working as intended my friend.
The deepest circle of hell is reserved for betrayers and mutineers.

bbrooks's Avatar


bbrooks
04.14.2013 , 04:49 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by KhealThar View Post
There would be no reason to play a marauder if they didn't have the utlity. A Jugg or Sorcerer can spec into healing to get a slot in a raid group. A marauder just brings damage and the utility it currently has. Working as intended my friend.
Right, more damage and more utility. It should be one or the other. Both makes it so we have the situation we are currently in, which is there is no real point in bringing a different class to dps. If mara's and snipers were doing the same DPS as the other classes currently, they would still get a raid spot because of the utility. Take that away, but leave the damage where it is, guess what? They still get a raid spot. It may be working as the Dev's intended, but that isn't the right way to do it.
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dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
04.15.2013 , 12:24 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by bbare View Post
They have the best utility. Another dps class really cannot compete with the sniper shield bubble or the marauder predation and bloodthirst.

It becomes a disadvantage to bring any other ranged or melee class, keeping gear and player skill constant. I understand that they cannot do anything but dps, but if you are going to give them the best dps, don't give them the best utility.

I would like class utility to be redesigned so that every advanced class has a role in an operation. Snipers/Marauders can be the nukers and put out the most damage, but take away their group buffs and give them to other classes so bringing along a balanced group of classes becomes an advantage.
A raid group will take a marauder for bloodthirst but I can't really imagine bothering to take a sniper for the shield. The CD is just too long for it to really help out with healing - if you can't heal the damage without it then your out of luck because 20 seconds every 2.5 to 3 minutes just isn't going to win you a fight.

Other abilities like taunt , resilience, leap to ally, pull ally, etc are also very good and occasionally can make a huge difference.

So in other words, no.

Mattmonkey's Avatar


Mattmonkey
04.15.2013 , 04:11 AM | #6
Im in two minds about this.

I do think the argument that some classes can respec so they should be crap at DPS is... well crap. when you are DPS speced for raiding you may not even have say a tank set and you may have no interest in tanking. the fact that you theortically could as an argument for being crap isw stupid. A bit like me tanking the final boss in HM FE on my sentinal because the tank had to go.

DPS should be about the same. Utility should be varied with classes all having something of value. It looks like this has been achieved in 2.0 (yay developers). however in an environment where DPS are about = and utility is varied then pure DPS should either have slight better utility or slightly better DPS (for bragging rights). This is about how it looks in 2.0 to me.

In the last patch it was hard to do serious raiding as a vigilance guardian but i think balance has been handeled a lot more carefully in this patch. It is no longer - sorry mate we need sentinals and slingers.
Lyrik - Guardian
Mogal - Jugg
Lyr - Sentinal

Davionix's Avatar


Davionix
04.15.2013 , 04:58 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
A raid group will take a marauder for bloodthirst but I can't really imagine bothering to take a sniper for the shield. The CD is just too long for it to really help out with healing - if you can't heal the damage without it then your out of luck because 20 seconds every 2.5 to 3 minutes just isn't going to win you a fight.

Other abilities like taunt , resilience, leap to ally, pull ally, etc are also very good and occasionally can make a huge difference.

So in other words, no.
Look for green for TL;DR

Shield bubble is useful when raid-wide heavy damage is happening ( ex : Droid boss at S & V after it hits 20%) extending the life of raid during soft enrages which can sometimes ( not always ) mean the difference between a wipe and a kill. Now that the shield does not disappear if sniper / gunslinger moves after it has been cast a player can place it in an optimal position for maximum coverage and then move to a safer position.

Other abilities you listed like taunt, resilience, leap to ally, pull ally etc are only situationally useful and benefit only caster and/or another single individual and therefore should not be considered as raid-wide utility.

However if you define general utility as using inherent class abilities to make an encounter more manageable
Spoiler
you can argue that :

  • Snipers / gunslingers have group benefiting abilities at the expense of self heals & self damage reduction/ immunity skills other ranged dps possess while they still have a low cooldown damage absorption shield and wounding shots.

  • Sentinels / marauders however still have the advantage over other melee classes by having saber ward, rebuke/cloak of pain, force camouflage, pacify/obfuscate, deadly throw, awe/intimidating roar as utility skills not even counting droid cc and self & group heals and 5% damage reduction debuff on target from watchman / annihilation spec in addition to inspiration / bloodthirst & transendence / predation as raid wise utility.

TL;DR
Extra dmg/healiing from bloodthirst/inspiration for your group is useful in all boss fights which involve dpsing and healing (ie all boss fights) and the aoe shield bubble of snipers/gunslingers is beneficial to majority of the ops group ( mainly dps & healers ) when it is used correctly.


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dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
04.15.2013 , 08:11 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Davionix View Post
Other abilities you listed like taunt, resilience, leap to ally, pull ally etc are only situationally useful and benefit only caster and/or another single individual and therefore should not be considered as raid-wide utility.
That's not a meaningful distinction. If it helps to kill a boss it is useful. Whether it is "raid wide" or just affecting a single person which in turn saves the raid is not and important difference. There are more bosses where taunt is useful than the shield - unless you're stacking 4 snipers in your group.

Mattmonkey's Avatar


Mattmonkey
04.15.2013 , 02:30 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Davionix View Post
Look for green for TL;DR
  • Sentinels / marauders however still have the advantage over other melee classes by having saber ward, rebuke/cloak of pain, force camouflage, pacify/obfuscate, deadly throw, awe/intimidating roar as utility skills not even counting droid cc and self & group heals and 5% damage reduction debuff on target from watchman / annihilation spec in addition to inspiration / bloodthirst & transendence / predation as raid wise utility.
.
Sry mate just wrong here. Even pre 2.0 Vigilance guardians were significantly less squashy than sentinals. I end game raid with both. post 2.0 the survivability of vigilance has been improved to make this a cleaer point of difference. Inspiration and trancendence are great raid wide utility.

As i said above my personal preference is that utility is varied i think thats about the balance we hav eright now.
Lyrik - Guardian
Mogal - Jugg
Lyr - Sentinal

Luckeyduckey's Avatar


Luckeyduckey
04.25.2013 , 07:46 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Mattmonkey View Post
Sry mate just wrong here. Even pre 2.0 Vigilance guardians were significantly less squashy than sentinals. I end game raid with both. post 2.0 the survivability of vigilance has been improved to make this a cleaer point of difference. Inspiration and trancendence are great raid wide utility.

As i said above my personal preference is that utility is varied i think thats about the balance we hav eright now.
I don't know. Passively, yes, I suppose. Cloak of Pain is great when you expect damage, Saber Ward is a tie, Camo versus Juggie threat drop heal, Camo wins. Camo is free, reduces damage by 50%, and drops more threat, and increases movement. The healing on the Jugg one is bad unless you have a dot on you plus lots of rage, Endure versus Undying, Undying wins, because you can absorb 99% of the damage. So if it's life or death, Endure -might- save you, but Undying -will- save you. It's fairly equal.
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