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Roll needs a nerf


ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
04.24.2013 , 02:39 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by jgoldsack View Post
Have I started ANYWHERE that I want the ability taken away? No. Not a single place have I started that roll needs to be taken away. All I have said is that it needs to drop the ball.
Did I say you did? You said there's no other ability that carries the ball well like Scamper...hence my comment that unique skills be darned! What's wrong w/ a unique skill that makes scoundrels halfway useful in Huttball? You know how much we sucked before the patch? Couldn't get anywhere quickly, couldn't pull people into fire, couldn't push people off ledge. We had zero Huttball utility. I loathed playing Huttball on my Scoundrel. While my Shadow was(still is) a blast. Now, HB actually enjoyable as a scoundrel.
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ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
04.24.2013 , 02:41 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by jgoldsack View Post
Best? No.

But they are no where near the worst, arguably one of the better ones, if they happen to have full energy. Seen it a lot in WZ lately where the scoundrel will grab the ball, roll up the ramp, roll over the fire pit, then roll beeline to the end zone.
And what's wrong w/ them no longer being the worst? They finally bring something to the table in HB. Seriously...by you answer it sounds like you demand they be the worst. Why aren't you whining about the best ball carrier since you just admitted it's still not the scoundrel.
<Proper Villians> Rhees Bonkurz

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Megamaid's Avatar


Megamaid
04.24.2013 , 02:55 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by jgoldsack View Post
Best? No.

But they are no where near the worst, arguably one of the better ones, if they happen to have full energy. Seen it a lot in WZ lately where the scoundrel will grab the ball, roll up the ramp, roll over the fire pit, then roll beeline to the end zone.
You make it so roll drops the ball then they certainly would become the worst. Are they the best now? NO, so if they are not the best then it is not OP. If they were by far the best ball carrier then you might have a point. In the end, shadows and guardians are better ball carriers and that is all that matters. They aren't even in the top 2 and you want to make them the worst ball carrier with such a change. Maybe they are great in pug HB but should we really destroy their ball carrying capabilities because idiots like you can't handle roll in pugs.

Stop being an idiot and realize that you are asking to make them the worst ball carrier.

Honestly this seems more like scoundrel and operative hate then it is an actual well thought out topic about roll being OP in HB.

HB would be far better if they took the new hindered debuff, the one from electro net, applied to all ball carriers, and remove the constant slow from carrying the ball. This would help turn it into a game about passing, they way it should be played. You may get some turtle strategies but there are ways to remove that. 1 is to put a damage increase debuff on the ball carrier. Another is to prevent teams from winning 0-0, by adding in extra time if there is a tie. a non timed sudden death period.

jgoldsack's Avatar


jgoldsack
04.24.2013 , 02:57 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by ML_DoubleTap View Post
Did I say you did? You said there's no other ability that carries the ball well like Scamper...hence my comment that unique skills be darned! What's wrong w/ a unique skill that makes scoundrels halfway useful in Huttball? You know how much we sucked before the patch? Couldn't get anywhere quickly, couldn't pull people into fire, couldn't push people off ledge. We had zero Huttball utility. I loathed playing Huttball on my Scoundrel. While my Shadow was(still is) a blast. Now, HB actually enjoyable as a scoundrel.
I said there was no spammable ability like scamper/roll that was able to carry that ball. You misinterptreted it to infer that I said that it should not be a unique ability.

I played a scoundrel healer pre-patch, I am aware of the limitations they had. Last I knew, mercs and snipers couldn't get anywhere quickly either, at least scoundrels had stealth. *shrug* I still enjoyed huttball on mine.


Quote: Originally Posted by ML_DoubleTap View Post
And what's wrong w/ them no longer being the worst? They finally bring something to the table in HB. Seriously...by you answer it sounds like you demand they be the worst. Why aren't you whining about the best ball carrier since you just admitted it's still not the scoundrel.
Did I say I wanted them to be the worst? No. But thanks for letting me know what I am wanting. The current "best" ball carrier (jugg) can be easily countered by not being dumb and letting them jump to you.

I am sorry if you cannot think of other ways for your scoundrel to be useful in huttball other than carrying a ball. You got your escape, your quick movement, just what scoundrels were asking for.

And why is disagreeing with an ability, or suggesting that it is too powerful, whining? What ever happened to people simply having disagreements without resorting to calling people whiners?

Obviously we are not going to agree, so there is no point in my continuing this discussion.
On the Internet, you can be anything you want. It is strange so many people choose to be stupid.

LanceCorporalDan's Avatar


LanceCorporalDan
04.24.2013 , 03:00 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by jgoldsack View Post
roll takes 25 energy, and they can go 24m on a full bar, 48m if they have their probe up (whatever it is called that refills their energy). Spamming roll will get them moving much faster than any other speed boost out there.

The problem is they move so fast out of range (I have had them outdistance me even with me using force speed, and still out of range) that being able to CC or stun them is extremely difficult.
Chances are they will roll past a teammate who will probably stun/snare/push/knowckback/pull them.

I haven't had much trouble with them really.
Lieutenant Neves
1st Assault Platoon Commander
ALPHA COMPANY
203rd Republic Expeditionary Legion

Coldin's Avatar


Coldin
04.24.2013 , 03:12 PM | #66
The focus seems to be on Spammable, completing ignoring the drawbacks to the skill. Yes, Force Leap isn't spammable, but it also covers 30 meters, can be used effectively while slowed, and gives other buffs (like CC immunity) depending on spec. It also doesn't cost a ridiculous amount of energy.

Okod's Avatar


Okod
04.24.2013 , 03:21 PM | #67
My re-balance idea (posted elsewhere);

Initial cost of 10 energy but applies a stacking debuff that increases cost by 30 energy, duration to be fine tuned, maybe 9s - 12s.

Roll 1; 10 energy (cheaper!)
Roll 2; 40 energy (2 back to back rolls cost 50 energy, same as now)
Roll 3; 70 energy (have to wait for regen, or pop the probe)
Roll 4; 100 energy (not gonna happen)

This brings it back into line as a gap closer and escape (what I believe was the original intent), and away from a blanket speed boost ability.

Viozaer's Avatar


Viozaer
04.24.2013 , 03:37 PM | #68
LOL... I have no problem with roll (and I am not a Smuggler or Agent). None of the force users (by far the ones complaining loudest and hardest) think the whole chain pull/SmashMonkey Jump to score is wrong. You'd all scream Bloody Murder is they nerfed that in WZs.
Capt. Viozaer Foboma, Executive Officer
203rd REL - Alpha Company
There is no force. Only death..

Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
04.24.2013 , 04:49 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Okod View Post
My re-balance idea (posted elsewhere);

Initial cost of 10 energy but applies a stacking debuff that increases cost by 30 energy, duration to be fine tuned, maybe 9s - 12s.

Roll 1; 10 energy (cheaper!)
Roll 2; 40 energy (2 back to back rolls cost 50 energy, same as now)
Roll 3; 70 energy (have to wait for regen, or pop the probe)
Roll 4; 100 energy (not gonna happen)

This brings it back into line as a gap closer and escape (what I believe was the original intent), and away from a blanket speed boost ability.
If someone runs away from me with their escape ability, I usually need at least 3 rolls to catch up with them. So not too keen on this idea. That kind of system would not be too bad, but it should let you roll 3-4 times, or it's just now as good as the other cap closers and escape abilities.

Dasgruberg's Avatar


Dasgruberg
04.24.2013 , 04:52 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralOnasi View Post
People are still whining about this?
People always gotta whine about something. Now its operatives being viable in huttball as something other than a healer. Its strange , scary and different. Much like the first time man saw a fire.
Maekor - 55 Juggernaut
Andrine - 55 shadow
Kintara - 55 Powertech
Zaekor - 55 Sniper