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RotHC // 2.0 : Healing - It's ridiculous.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
RotHC // 2.0 : Healing - It's ridiculous.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
04.22.2013 , 03:17 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
You are ignoring one important thing here: Normal warzones.

I don't know what kind of normal warzones you are playing but mine consist of atleast four clueless pugs. So how do you implement tactics and "focus" when everyone is scattered and no one ever listens? Yes, your own healers will most likely be able to free cast too but I've never argued that I win less because of healers. I'm arguing that it's *********** boring to play this way. And no, I can't single handedly burn down a healer while he has another healer healing him.
in unorganized Pugs vs unorganized pugs, more healers team will always win simply because coordinating cross heals (thanks to ops frame) is always easier than coordinating DPS focus fire (in unorganized pugs)
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
04.22.2013 , 03:20 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
in unorganized Pugs vs unorganized pugs, more healers team will always win simply because coordinating cross heals (thanks to ops frame) is always easier than coordinating DPS focus fire (in unorganized pugs)
So your saying focusing "a mark" is harder than cross healing?



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MidichIorian's Avatar


MidichIorian
04.22.2013 , 03:21 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
in unorganized Pugs vs unorganized pugs,.....
So basically +95% of all games played.

Soxbadger's Avatar


Soxbadger
04.22.2013 , 03:24 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
You are ignoring one important thing here: Normal warzones.

I don't know what kind of normal warzones you are playing but mine consist of atleast four clueless pugs. So how do you implement tactics and "focus" when everyone is scattered and no one ever listens? Yes, your own healers will most likely be able to free cast too but I've never argued that I win less because of healers. I'm arguing that it's *********** boring to play this way. And no, I can't single handedly burn down a healer while he has another healer healing him.
Right no one who plays a lot of pvp wants drastic changes over lowbie pvp. The high end pvp is 55+, that is where you run into 4-8 man premade groups who have mumble/vent and mark targets.

If you make it easier to kill healers, they will be trampled.

In sub 55 wz, you basically are just hoping to have a few competent players, but really it doesnt matter because you are getting EXP/Comms for when you get to the real pvp, level 55.

And also in sub 54 pvp most of the healers arent top end healers, so even just 1 dpser chasing them around will likely frustrate them and make them pretty useless.

Heck in lvl 55 when I pug I sometimes get groups who dont understand basic concepts like: "focus on their healer", "protect our healer", "DO NOT JUMP OFF THE NODE WHERE I AM HEALING BECAUSE YOU GO OUT OF RANGE."

But that is on my group for losing. If they play stupid we deserve to lose. Healing isnt overpowered because everyone has an equal opportunity to receive heals and everyone can be a healer if they want.

Healing isnt exactly the most fun part of pvp, you have a significant amount of responsibility and half the time people dont even think twice about you. Yet your entire job is to think about everyone else.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
04.22.2013 , 03:24 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
So your saying focusing "a mark" is harder than cross healing?



the marked guy can have a guard and full health, and the idiots will still DPS him instead of the guy 5m to the left of him with health within execute range.

Try noticing, in a 3 healer team, how fast you get healed by every healer in the vecinity once your HP goes down. Healers are having a very easy time saving each other from the bring of death with cross-healing. I am ok with healer performance in their 1vs1 against DPS, but cross healing is a real pain, and in unorganized pugs, cross healing always beats focus fire.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

Soxbadger's Avatar


Soxbadger
04.22.2013 , 03:27 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
So your saying focusing "a mark" is harder than cross healing?



What he is saying is that healers by and large are already trained with a "team first" mentality. Thus when a fellow healer is going down, I will heal them because I am aware of what is going on with my team. I dont need mumble/vent to understand what my team needs because as a healer my entire job is always to help the team.

Conversely many dps are "me first" and therefore they will spend minutes death matching the same person to prove "Im the most elite dps" instead of noticing that someone is healing and immediately moving to that target.

Its just lazy, especially when it is so very easy to mark a healer. "Oh that guy has a lightning bolt over his head, maybe I should kill him"

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
04.22.2013 , 03:28 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Soxbadger View Post
Heck in lvl 55 when I pug I sometimes get groups who dont understand basic concepts like: "focus on their healer", "protect our healer", "DO NOT JUMP OFF THE NODE WHERE I AM HEALING BECAUSE YOU GO OUT OF RANGE."

*snip

Healing isnt exactly the most fun part of pvp, you have a significant amount of responsibility and half the time people dont even think twice about you. Yet your entire job is to think about everyone else.
QFT,

Healers should be marked if your team intends to win the WZ, regardless of level. I'm a hybrid tank and I stay on the enemy healers like white on rice. PuG DPS? Not so much...
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
04.22.2013 , 03:29 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Soxbadger View Post
What he is saying is that healers by and large are already trained with a "team first" mentality. Thus when a fellow healer is going down, I will heal them because I am aware of what is going on with my team. I dont need mumble/vent to understand what my team needs because as a healer my entire job is always to help the team.

Conversely many dps are "me first" and therefore they will spend minutes death matching the same person to prove "Im the most elite dps" instead of noticing that someone is healing and immediately moving to that target.

Its just lazy, especially when it is so very easy to mark a healer. "Oh that guy has a lightning bolt over his head, maybe I should kill him"
I know I am just saying, when a healer is marked, most PuG DPS run the other way... I mean how hard is it to follow the mark?
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
04.22.2013 , 03:33 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
I know I am just saying, when a healer is marked, most PuG DPS run the other way... I mean how hard is it to follow the mark?
3 healers, all 3 marked, how do you teach disorganized DPS who to shoot and slash? Notice how in RWZ the leader gives order who to DPS and everybody drops what they are doing and ficuses fire. We dont have that kind of dynamic focus fire in random pugs.

As much as i am trying to aid whatever team mate with focus fire,i will always miss the bigger picture. While a healer only has to look at his ops frame and he already knows if there is somebody within his LOS that needs heal.

And wait, we have special DPS spec requirments to bring down healers. You need mobile melee dps to acrually hunt the down.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

Soxbadger's Avatar


Soxbadger
04.22.2013 , 03:37 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
3 healers, all 3 marked, how do you teach disorganized DPS who to shoot and slash? Notice how in RWZ the leader gives order who to DPS and everybody drops what they are doing and ficuses fire. We dont have that kind of dynamic focus fire in random pugs.
The same way you do it in pve when you have pugs on a ops or hardmode.

Kill in this order, saber, target, lightning.

Once again you are arguing for large changes based on lowbie pvp. The only way would be some sort of negative heal bonus in sub 54 zones, but who really is helped by that?

Everyone can receive healing equally. If you arent getting enough healers in your wzs, roll a healer.

You dont think a lot of us healers would rather run around leaping, pew pewing and not caring?