Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Absorb Adrenal: Pre-2.0 vs 2.0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Absorb Adrenal: Pre-2.0 vs 2.0

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
04.18.2013 , 09:08 PM | #1
I'm sure many of you have already figured this out but I haven't seen it posted in a visible spot yet.

With the changes in 2.0 the new Nano-Infused Absorb Adrenal gives a boost to Shield and Absorb whereas the old Rakata and Exotech Adrenals give a boost to Armor rating (which was then also multiplied by the stance modifier). I ran a quick test yesterday to compare the 2 and with my hodge podge 61/63/69 mix of gear I found the following:

Rakata Adrenal increased my K/E DR by ~6.5%
Re-usable Nano-Infused Adrenal increased my Shield by ~8.4% and my Absorb by ~7.3% each.

Now even with gear upgrades, the new Nano-Infused is never going to provide a greater survivability boost than the older ones unless it is redesigned. In the mean time, I suggest anyone who uses these adrenals while tanking continues to use the older ones. On the plus side, they're now cheap as chips.

Huge thanks to KeyboardNinja for doing to full mathematical proof behind the concept.
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Spoiler


Just so you don't have to read the spoiler tags, here you go: {shadow->0.11398,guardian->0.614459,vanguard->0.174525}

So, the new calculation is basically considering the *full* mitigation profile (not including self-heal), assuming a 75/25 split on m/r+k/e vs f/t+k/e damage. I then take the percentage of mitigation increase from each adrenal, and then look at the ratio of these increases between the two adrenals. Loosely:

(mit[base + exo-adrenal] / mit[base] - 1) / (mit[base + nano-adrenal] / mit[base] - 1) - 1

Where mitigation is defined as the standard:

0.75(1 - (1 - dr)(1 - def)(1 - shld*abs)) + 0.25(1 - (1 - dr)(1 - shld*abs))

Note that this doesn't consider resist chance, so it is *very* slightly inaccurate (the value of the nano-infused stim is deflated by a miniscule amount), but it's pretty close to accurate.

The results show that the Exotech adrenal is 11.4% better than the Nano-Infused for Shadows, a staggering 61.4% better for Guardians, and 17.5% better for Vanguards. So, your initial intuition was correct, grallmate, the Exotech adrenal *is* better, and by a fairly wide margin.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

Ranasi's Avatar


Ranasi
04.19.2013 , 11:48 PM | #2
Yea i have to agree... with the rakata i get an almost streight up 9% additional damage reduction compared to 5-6% shield/absorb from the adrenal. This is with a mix of Artifact and black market gear.

I think the issue is that absorb and shield hit their diminishing returns very quickly in the 650-700 range. I don't even have the new absorb augments in either which will be another 300-400 absorb rating on top of that which means even lower % due to the diminishing returns.

I would have to double check this but i assume armor rating has diminishing returns on the damage reduction. perhaps since shadows have such low armor rating they benefit most from the old absorb adrenal since diminishing returns isnt kicking in much at all for them.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
04.20.2013 , 12:09 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Ranasi View Post
Yea i have to agree... with the rakata i get an almost streight up 9% additional damage reduction compared to 5-6% shield/absorb from the adrenal. This is with a mix of Artifact and black market gear.

I think the issue is that absorb and shield hit their diminishing returns very quickly in the 650-700 range. I don't even have the new absorb augments in either which will be another 300-400 absorb rating on top of that which means even lower % due to the diminishing returns.

I would have to double check this but i assume armor rating has diminishing returns on the damage reduction. perhaps since shadows have such low armor rating they benefit most from the old absorb adrenal since diminishing returns isnt kicking in much at all for them.
As far as I know, armor has an almost constant contribution to DR. The biggest benefit with the armor adrenal is that the boost is then multiplied by your stance modifier. This gives a nice boost for Guardians and Vanguards and an amazing boost for Shadows.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

Ranasi's Avatar


Ranasi
04.20.2013 , 01:11 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
As far as I know, armor has an almost constant contribution to DR. The biggest benefit with the armor adrenal is that the boost is then multiplied by your stance modifier. This gives a nice boost for Guardians and Vanguards and an amazing boost for Shadows.
ahh yea makes sense either way though il be sticking with the old absorb adrenals for now.

Elegances's Avatar


Elegances
04.20.2013 , 01:54 AM | #5
This is what I suspected, but I didn't test it since I don't play a tank much, thanks for confirming.
Edit:
Question: While the new stim is clearly better than the old, I'm not sure if the new medpac is worth using over the rakata one, which heals for less but also gives 15% to max hp for 15 seconds.

feelingtheblanks's Avatar


feelingtheblanks
04.21.2013 , 09:26 AM | #6
You can use both medpacks at different situations. So having both is good imo. For example if you are very low and in need of an extra panic button, pop the new one since it has better raw healing and the extra 15% pool from rakata isn't gonna help you much in this situation. On the other hand you can benefit from the extra health pool to provide somekinda safe window for healers at certain situations. Where there's a hard&fast hitting enemy or everyone is getting seriously low and need urgent healing while you are constantly getting damage. So you can use that extra hp provided from rakata medpack.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.22.2013 , 12:06 PM | #7
Edit: This post is inaccurate and misleading. See #18 for the corrected results.

Actually grall, I'm going to contradict you here. The nano-infused adrenal is actually *better* than the armor adrenal due to base class bonuses (e.g. Kinetic Ward). The math is as follows:

Spoiler


The results at the end are the most notable:

{shadow -> -0.0739487, guardian -> -2.79226, vanguard -> -0.373133}

This is to say that the nano-infused adrenal is strictly better than the exotech adrenal for all tanks, but especially guardians. Shadows can get away with either one, since the Nano-Infused adrenal is only *slightly* better than the Exotech for that class. (do note however that these values are not scaled by other mitigation mechanisms, most notably defense, meaning that the exact magnitude can be somewhat misleading)

Deciphering the Mathematica for more convenient work-checking, I'm basically examining the following equation:

DR((1675 + armor) * scalar) / DR(armor * scalar) - (ShieldBonus + Shield(375 + shield))(AbsorbBonus + Absorb(375 + absorb)) / (ShieldBonus + Shield(shield))(AbsorbBonus + Absorb(absorb))

Thus, I'm examining the ratio of mitigation improvement. Negative results indicate that the nano-infused adrenal is better than the exotech adrenal. The more negative the result, the better the nano-infused adrenal. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I doubled all of the ratings and ran the calculation again, just to get an approximate idea of if this trend will continue into higher stat budgets: {shadow -> -0.066216, guardian -> -1.27925, vanguard -> -0.279283}.

So basically, the Nano-Infused adrenal is actually better than the Exotech across all stat budgets.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
04.22.2013 , 12:20 PM | #8
I've been using the rakata adrenal in all the new content.

armor > shield / absorb.

Always.
Former GM and RL of a once great guild. Now just wandering the galaxy looking for a good home.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.22.2013 , 12:22 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Mavery View Post
I've been using the rakata adrenal in all the new content.

armor > shield / absorb.

Always.
I think I might do that as a shadow tank. The nano-infused adrenal provides about 3% better mitigation than the exotech for a shadow tank (scaled for defense, self-heal and talents), but it's still RNG based. If I were a guardian though, I'd be *all* over the nano-infused stim.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

NrDLeipe's Avatar


NrDLeipe
04.23.2013 , 01:18 AM | #10
im useing the rakata adrenal more often then the new 1, it does feel like the spikey damage is less with the old 1.

new medpack im not sure of since im an assassin in some sitution that extra hp is nice and it boosts self healing up a bit.
The wrath of the empire knows no bounds
Ref link. http://www.swtor.com/r/C88CDZ