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PVE bolster!


Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
04.19.2013 , 10:12 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by yauhen_pt View Post
actually it's absolutely the same. in pve you can not do ops if you are 1-49 lvl, you can not do new 55 lvl ops if your lvl is lower then that, isn't it? bolster could be applied to all of these fps/ops, just it should work in different manner for each brackets. like in pvp.
but in pvp I can't choose anything.

I can't choose a bracket based on the skill and gear I think I have, if that was so a bolster wouldn't be needed in the endgame pvp
T3-M4 - Lvl 55 Chars:
T'hana Jugg, Saleona Sniper, S'inthoras Mara,Hannahla Merc, Eleondra&Eleondraa Ops,
Leeonira Sorc, CaphalÝr Sorc, Kindarya Assa, LeoniŽ PT,
Revuna Mando, Leojuna Scoundrel, Simon'e Shadow, Sileona Guardian

yauhen_pt's Avatar


yauhen_pt
04.19.2013 , 10:18 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Never_Hesitate View Post
but in pvp I can't choose anything.

I can't choose a bracket based on the skill and gear I think I have, if that was so a bolster wouldn't be needed in the endgame pvp
the same in pve, you can not choose a bracket according skill and gear you have. you can not do ops if your level is below 50, and it no matter what gear and skill you have.

to be clear: now anyone could join wz and have fun. anyone would competitive at least based on gear. I want the same feature in pve. I don't want spend months to grind pve gear, I want it for free and right now. just to join any random fps/ops and get fun. it will not break the game. any of you who like grind gear could continue to do it (play with mods/armorings, etc).
The Red Eclipse Zenaar assassin | Zenaor juggernaut | Zenair sage | Argh operative

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.19.2013 , 11:02 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by yauhen_pt View Post
the same in pve, you can not choose a bracket according skill and gear you have. you can not do ops if your level is below 50, and it no matter what gear and skill you have.

to be clear: now anyone could join wz and have fun. anyone would competitive at least based on gear. I want the same feature in pve. I don't want spend months to grind pve gear, I want it for free and right now. just to join any random fps/ops and get fun. it will not break the game. any of you who like grind gear could continue to do it (play with mods/armorings, etc).
It's called "Story Mode". You can, for the most part, go into Story Mode ops with any level 55 gear and pull your own weight. The fact that several guilds have cleared the Hard Mode content in level 50 gear should be ample evidence that this is viable.

This is exactly the point that everyone is trying to make though: there is no "story mode" for warzones. When I queue into a warzone, I can't ask for entry level PvP gearing. I might get matched with beginners in PvE gear, or I might get matched against a full premade in optimized Conqueror gear. I don't mind the fact that I'm being matched against players that are more skilled and more experienced (that's what PvP is all about, after all), but I don't want to simply get gear stomped because I haven't spent as much time floor tanking as they have. There are really two ways to solve this: improve the matchmaking system to ensure gear levels are even (and dramatically increase the queuing population to support this), or marginalize gear so that the disparity never happens. Since the first solution requires fixing a problem that is beyond Bioware's control (queuing population) and also fixing a problem that is technically very challenging (what does gear score mean in the presence of the mod system?), Bioware decided to go with the second solution. Bolster is a totally valid answer to the problem, it just needs to be tuned appropriately (as it currently is not).
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank)

yauhen_pt's Avatar


yauhen_pt
04.19.2013 , 11:33 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
This is exactly the point that everyone is trying to make though: there is no "story mode" for warzones. When I queue into a warzone, I can't ask for entry level PvP gearing. I might get matched with beginners in PvE gear, or I might get matched against a full premade in optimized Conqueror gear. I don't mind the fact that I'm being matched against players that are more skilled and more experienced (that's what PvP is all about, after all), but I don't want to simply get gear stomped because I haven't spent as much time floor tanking as they have.
as I understand your idea is that you want free and right now valuable gear in pvp, while the green/blue pve geared 50/55 lvl guys should not be allowed to do hm/nim ops? why?

Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
There are really two ways to solve this: improve the matchmaking system to ensure gear levels are even (and dramatically increase the queuing population to support this), or marginalize gear so that the disparity never happens. Since the first solution requires fixing a problem that is beyond Bioware's control (queuing population) and also fixing a problem that is technically very challenging (what does gear score mean in the presence of the mod system?), Bioware decided to go with the second solution. Bolster is a totally valid answer to the problem, it just needs to be tuned appropriately (as it currently is not).
tell me plz how long it takes to find a group for fp/ops via gf (is it even possible to que gf for hm/nim)? any ideas how to fix it? hint: pve bolster will solve this problem! people will pop for any fp/ops sm/hm/nim it would be huge number of groups riding non stop, a lot of fun for everybody... wait.. you don't like it.. why?

oh.. I know.. the answer is... "story mode". "story mode" does not allow green/blue geared 50/55 lvl guys clear ops nim.
The Red Eclipse Zenaar assassin | Zenaor juggernaut | Zenair sage | Argh operative

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.19.2013 , 11:47 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by yauhen_pt View Post
as I understand your idea is that you want free and right now valuable gear in pvp, while the green/blue pve geared 50/55 lvl guys should not be allowed to do hm/nim ops? why?
My idea is not that I want all gear to be free and immediately available. What I want is PvP to be accessible. It is currently not. I PvP *extensively* sub-50, but I stopped queuing entirely when I hit level 50 pre-2.0. Why? Gear smashing. I understand you're annoyed at the devaluation of gear progression in PvP. Give me a better solution to make *any* level 50 PvP accessible! PvE provides this in the form of story mode.

Quote: Originally Posted by yauhen_pt View Post
tell me plz how long it takes to find a group for fp/ops via gf (is it even possible to que gf for hm/nim)? any ideas how to fix it? hint: pve bolster will solve this problem! people will pop for any fp/ops sm/hm/nim it would be huge number of groups riding non stop, a lot of fun for everybody... wait.. you don't like it.. why?
PvE bolster would do nothing to make group finder queues pop faster. People don't queue for random story mode ops because they don't want to be matched with morons. It really has nothing to do with gear. As for HM/Nightmare Mode, is it possible to solo queue for a ranked match?

I like encouraging more raiding, but adding bolster to PvE doesn't accomplish that goal. You're really missing the point that I'm trying to make: without bolster, level 50 PvP is entirely inaccessible to anyone unwilling to spend the next several weeks tanking the floor, and yet level 50 PvE remains directly accessible and easy to get into. Fix that problem without introducing bolster to PvP.

Quote: Originally Posted by yauhen_pt View Post
oh.. I know.. the answer is... "story mode". "story mode" does not allow green/blue geared 50/55 lvl guys clear ops nim.
I've already said that I don't like the fact that bolster applies in ranked warzones.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank)

yauhen_pt's Avatar


yauhen_pt
04.19.2013 , 12:17 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
My idea is not that I want all gear to be free and immediately available. What I want is PvP to be accessible. It is currently not. I PvP *extensively* sub-50, but I stopped queuing entirely when I hit level 50 pre-2.0. Why? Gear smashing. I understand you're annoyed at the devaluation of gear progression in PvP. Give me a better solution to make *any* level 50 PvP accessible! PvE provides this in the form of story mode.
I am not annoyed, I am happy! its me who asking here the same for pve! why are you so annoyed with devaluation of gear progression in pve? its not even a devaluation, you could do it, grind new nice gear.
when did u do ops nim in green/blue gear? its sounds u doing it everyday.

Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
PvE bolster would do nothing to make group finder queues pop faster. People don't queue for random story mode ops because they don't want to be matched with morons. It really has nothing to do with gear.
pvp bolster solved pvp problem for u, u can now q pvp, why do u think pve bolster will not solve this problem for pve?

Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I like encouraging more raiding, but adding bolster to PvE doesn't accomplish that goal.
it will solve the problem. more raids - less newbies! simple equation.

Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
You're really missing the point that I'm trying to make: without bolster, level 50 PvP is entirely inaccessible to anyone unwilling to spend the next several weeks tanking the floor, and yet level 50 PvE remains directly accessible and easy to get into. Fix that problem without introducing bolster to PvP. I've already said that I don't like the fact that bolster applies in ranked warzones.
I think pvp problem is solved (soon bolster wwill b ok.. I believe), we can solve pve problem as well. that's all, why do u against it.. have no idea.
The Red Eclipse Zenaar assassin | Zenaor juggernaut | Zenair sage | Argh operative

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.19.2013 , 02:18 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by yauhen_pt View Post
pvp bolster solved pvp problem for u, u can now q pvp, why do u think pve bolster will not solve this problem for pve?
Because the analogous problem (incoming gear disparity) doesn't exist in PvE. When you start doing PvP, you're matched against people who dramatically out-gear you. When you start doing PvE, you're matched against opponents designed for your gear level (entry level). In other words, PvE has always been balanced in this respect, while PvP has not. Adding bolster to PvE is addressing a problem that doesn't exist while simultaneously carrying with it the problems it has in PvP to an exacerbated extent. PvE is a gear game, and PvP is a skill game. If you take the gear out of PvE, there is absolutely nothing left.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank)

Scotland's Avatar


Scotland
04.19.2013 , 02:34 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Because the analogous problem (incoming gear disparity) doesn't exist in PvE. When you start doing PvP, you're matched against people who dramatically out-gear you. When you start doing PvE, you're matched against opponents designed for your gear level (entry level). In other words, PvE has always been balanced in this respect, while PvP has not. Adding bolster to PvE is addressing a problem that doesn't exist while simultaneously carrying with it the problems it has in PvP to an exacerbated extent. PvE is a gear game, and PvP is a skill game. If you take the gear out of PvE, there is absolutely nothing left.
Finally, a pve'r that says something i agree with ..... "PVE requires no skill."

/cheers
Alba Anaigh
Grandeurr - AlbaGuBra
> Carrier of Clutch <
> Does not lift, cuz carries all day long. <

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.19.2013 , 02:42 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Scotland View Post
Finally, a pve'r that says something i agree with ..... "PVE requires no skill."

/cheers
Not what I said (and not true), but if you want to take it that way, fine. Encouraging animosity and elitism between the PvP and PvE communities serves no purpose other than to pad your ego. I could point to any number of elements of PvP that are trivial compared to what we have to deal with in PvE (when was the last time you had a single player hit you for 28k in a single shot? or walk into a warzone with 7 million HP? or force you to fight it continually for 6+ minutes?), but it doesn't matter. I don't think either arena requires less skill per se, my point is that PvP is all about pitting player skill in a direct contest, while PvE is *much* more of a statistical game (and therefore places a higher emphasis on statistical weighting via gear score).
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank)

Yelloweyedemon's Avatar


Yelloweyedemon
04.20.2013 , 06:38 AM | #60
Bolster of ANY kind is not MMORPG material. End of story!

Most of those people asking for pve bolster, ain't really want it, they just wanna make PvE'ers see and understand how terrible bolster is for end-game content.

None would like to be boosted no matter the gear, to the top ops hard mode levels. That is exactly the same with the PvP bolster atm. Everyone is being boosted to pretty much the same level, no matter the gear, with PvP'ers unable to aquire better gear, because it wont make any difference at all.

Stop arguing about PvE bolster, and support PvP'ers, about removing bolster from lvl 55 PvP!