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New Hardmode Tuning vs PUG


Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
04.19.2013 , 04:21 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Glorthox View Post
1: Fix ability lag. Can't begin to tell you when tanking these new areas how many time I have hit one of my cd's or abilities and them not go off. It isn't until I click the icon multiple times that it wants to work. And a majority of the time its when I'm close to death. So this severely needs to be looked at. Also at times the FP lags at the same time as the ability lag. So if repair cost is going to be this high now, these issues need to be looked at.
I'd say this has to come, not to make anything easier, but to make the game work more flawless
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AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
04.19.2013 , 06:24 AM | #32
Quote:
3: Lower coordination. Most guilds have a high coordination which makes these new hardmodes seem easy to them. However, this doesn't include a PUG's perspective. Most pugs don't have coordination for the new hardmodes. So if people find it too easy, make a "NIGHTMARE" difficulty for hardmodes and have them yield ultimate marks.
Disagree with you there. None of the level 55 HM FPS require a high degree of coordination compared to stuff like HM TFB/S+V and NiM EC. Making a 3rd mode for an FP takes time that could be better spent making a new FP (Titans of Industry, The Imperial Warlord...).
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Earley's Avatar


Earley
04.22.2013 , 10:09 AM | #33
Friday and Saturday I did nothing but tank marathon 55 HM FPs, and after more than 30 runs (200/200 Elite comms this week and now I have a full set of Black Market 162/69 gear!), I can say certainly that these are not too hard. They are harder, yes, but I only had to give up on one group, where we had a healer with really bad crafted 146 gear.

The trick is communication and skill.

Twickers's Avatar


Twickers
04.22.2013 , 11:17 AM | #34
Honestly these hard modes were toned down compared to what they were like on the PTS (mando raiders normal trash mobs could crit for 5K) but I've found it's mostly on the tank if you're going to have a miserable experience since I pretty much always heal, if I ever get a tank with less than 27K HP minimum I drop, the one time I tried to heal someone with 25K HP he dropped faster than a DPS tanking it, utterly miserable experience because I could not keep that guy up at all.

So overall they aren't too bad though I would love to see the final boss of hammer station get a health reduction because it's seriously a boring fight and I really don't think he needs 918K HP, 550K would be more reasonable
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Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
04.22.2013 , 11:32 AM | #35
The hard modes are hard if you don't understand the following:

1. Strong mobs are really strong, often more so than elites.
2. Anything that looks like a turret is actually a boss.

Basically you should CC and stun the strongs immediately because they tend to have uninterruptible attacks that hit for way too much, while Elites have stuff that can usually be avoided/interrupted.

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
04.23.2013 , 01:32 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Glorthox View Post
I have been around since beta and found the old hardmode's fun a challenging. Whereas the new hardmodes are just insanely hard. The mobs hit entirely way too hard ( I am a tank primarly 150 rated gear ). I have only had 3 successful hardmodes and 9 fails.
Maybe you need to take a step back and look at yourself.
Are YOU the one that is the cause of all the failures? They are not "insanely hard". They are hard-er yes, but nowhere near insanely hard.
If you run ops as you say you do with your guild, why are you still worried about these FP's?
Ops drop tons of credits, AND better gear!
CC's are your friend, pull smart, kite when needed... use common sense and you won't be failing as much if at all.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
04.23.2013 , 04:39 PM | #37
The level 55 hardmode are pretty much brute force proof, as in if you tried to run into a pack of 5 strongs without CC and use no CDs you'll just be dead no matter what you're wearing. But this was true back at level 50. You could be Rakata geared in the level 50 HMs (way above the gear they're tuned at) and if you run straight into a pack of 5 strongs with no CC you'll die really fast.

It's just that for level 50s when you have Campaign/Dread Guard gear you can actually faceroll level 50 HMs since you're like 3 or 4 tiers above what the content is tuned at. That kind of gear currently doesn't exist in the game yet for level 55 HMs.

Brutal's Avatar


Brutal
04.25.2013 , 11:15 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Glorthox View Post
Either tune the hardmode's down a bit or do one of the following....

1: Fix ability lag. Can't begin to tell you when tanking these new areas how many time I have hit one of my cd's or abilities and them not go off. It isn't until I click the icon multiple times that it wants to work. And a majority of the time its when I'm close to death. So this severely needs to be looked at. Also at times the FP lags at the same time as the ability lag. So if repair cost is going to be this high now, these issues need to be looked at.


2: Raise tank defense % chance. Tank's are suppose to be designed to tank large amounts of damage, but not deal it. They are meat shields, nothing more, nothing less. And when a tank is nearly 3 shotted by trash mobs ( and being decently geared ) there is something wrong. Challenging I understand, but insanely hard is another. Most people will not queue for these new hardmode's because of so many factors. Wipes, repair costs, loot, ability lag, FP lag, trash being too hard, or raise tank's % chance for defense. I used to go into a hardmodes and not have to worry about being wiped out by trash ( unless the healer sucks ).


3: Lower coordination. Most guilds have a high coordination which makes these new hardmodes seem easy to them. However, this doesn't include a PUG's perspective. Most pugs don't have coordination for the new hardmodes. So if people find it too easy, make a "NIGHTMARE" difficulty for hardmodes and have them yield ultimate marks.


4: Dailies. At 55 instead of classic commendations for some dailies, allow basic commendations to be earned. Also raise the amount of credits earned through dailies. If the repair costs are going to be so high, give us a way of earning a higher number of credits.


We all love and enjoy the game in our own unique ways. Challenging in hardmode's isn't a terrible thing, but insanely hard is another. Insanely hard needs to be left to the operations where guilds reign. Hardmode's need to be there for those who aren't fortunate enough to be able to do operations. If things are too hard or things aren't working, then people get frustrated and quit. I know that the elitists who find these hardmode's too easy will bash this post, but who cares. Most come from hardcore guilds or are straight dps. So instead of bashing others, why not look at things from others standpoints and then come to an opinion? IMO keep the damage level where it is and lower the health pools. Honestly these new hardmode's almost feel like "nightmare" mode.
im not eliitist and run all hm 55 in pug grups only once didint fini**** (done abouth 40-50 runs) done lots of runs with pepole in 61 gear 2 maned atris if u know youre class and lern boss fights they are easy
dont try to face roll them like lvl 50 ones take youre time

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
04.25.2013 , 01:22 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Glorthox View Post
1: Fix ability lag.
This really, really, really needs to be fixed. I'm really hating it. Doing HM S&V last night and saw it happen multiple times. Very annoying and getting closer to /unsub and /uninstall.

However... none of your concerns, I feel, are very valid when applied to the HM 55 FP's. I don't do the FP's anymore as it's not giving me any ugprades anymore, but the handful of times I pugged it, everything went fine. So when you say, "most pugs" I think you're over generalizing. There are some pugs who can't handle it. I've seen that in Vanilla 50 HM's and, unfortunately, it's unavoidable in any LFG tool in a MMO.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
04.25.2013 , 01:47 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by MorgothPl View Post
Video or it didn't happen

Now, I understand that some hardcore people in their hardcore gear can 3-man it. Hell, we 3-manned one of bossess at Athiss, due to DPS dying. But, we have to consider, that there are many people who are new to MMOs. They are still learning, and they may struggle with the content.

The solution however is not to nerf the content, but somehow help those less fortunate with gear, who are still on start of their learning curve, don't have money to buy crafted gear and don't have chars who can craft items for them. I can afford few wipes, if that would teach someone some things about playing this game.
I agree. 3 manned HM Athiss yesterday (my HK-51 was our 2nd dps) but that doesn't mean it's easy. The new content is tuned for Campaign (146 gear). I know some people did it in min-maxed Rakata with augments but that's the hardcores even I think that doing it in Rakata gear would be tough (not impossible but tough).

Currently people need to get as much basic gear (level 66) as they level up. Which means people who hit 55 via PvP or space missions are going to be at a disadvantaged unless they already have Campaign or better.

I suggest that just as you can trade 40 WZ comms for 1 Planetary, you could trade 60 WZ comms for 1 Basic. I don't PvP even a 50th as much as I PvE but I think this would help.
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