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lol bolster

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Devlonir's Avatar


Devlonir
04.18.2013 , 05:35 AM | #1161
Quote: Originally Posted by Arutar View Post
Yes, your point being?

That using your amassed lvl 50 PVP gear when doing PVP lvl 50-54 was complete unforseeable? That the developers had NO way of knowing that players would try to do that instead of taking some lvl 33 green PVE gear instead over their lvl 50 epics (which makes so much more sense, right)?

Bugs do happen and should be expected. But these are not bugs. Its knowingly releasing a obviously completely untestested version of the Bolster which messes with an entire part of the games content, which is simply reckless.

If you are entirely ok with this, well this is your choice.
My point is, that this specific issue was fixed just before 2.0 went Live. This had the unforseen side effect that the underperformance of WH/EWH became the most clear issue at hand.

When it comes to QA, what often happens is that one issue arises when another is solved, or the presence of one issue overshadows the presence of another and therefore makes that less visible.

What also happened a lot on PTS was people in their mains, just going for the 55 insta boost and Partisan gear gaining route to 'test' endgame PVP. The route towards that will be less tested in a PTS environment while it will be more tested in an actual Live environment. Therefore, the issue of the route to Partisan (which is where WH/EWH exists) was undertested because people were able to insta 55 for testing purposes.

And these are bugs, no matter what you claim it to be. Also, 2.0 had to have Bolster because no other way of having PVP with the current talents was tested. So yes, gearing is a bit skewed now, but having removed Bolster just before Live would have created an even more untested and therefore a lot more unbalanced situation than we have now.

Yes, there are silly situations like endgame PVE being better than endgame PVP. But the inbalance of these weird situations is not nearly as big as the inbalance in PVP in general was pre-2.0. There is no 60-80% power difference that can be gained through abusing the Bolster bugs. And because of that, it is already superior to pre-2.0 PVP.
And, as I pointed out a few times already, it are the same people that are now gaming the system for maximum efficiency as those that did the pre-2.0 system by using PVE gear in certain slots, or mixing WH and EWH mods to get that Expertise sweet spot but maximizing other stats. It's not like raiders suddenly all started playing PVP. And their advantages are now still smaller than they were 3 weeks ago.
"Cows go 'Moo', Dogs go 'Woof', MMO Players go 'The PVP is unbalanced!" - Yahthzee
"I'm starting to get the feeling that BW and their MMO are not the dysfunctional ones." - Rafaman

Kirtastropohe's Avatar


Kirtastropohe
04.18.2013 , 06:14 AM | #1162
As others have said, please address the empty slots issue as well. Don't put in a fix for a problem you're finally acknowledging (pve being better than pvp gear) and then fail to address another big issue where people have to rip stuff out of their gear and have empty slots to get best stats.

I'm going to check these forums tuesday/wednesday, and if the system isn't fixed, and if it still punishes those who ground their gear out, I might finally pull the plug on this game.

Cruz's Avatar


Cruz
04.18.2013 , 06:27 AM | #1163
hope you(Bioware) have fun with your new clients, i hope they are as good as me at least... Thanks for ruining the game for me that am here from the beginning and making my "hard earned" pvp gear into pve gear xD...


time to sub out... Good luck in your future endeavors :P
Do or do not. There is no try.

Cruz |> Jedi Mastah <|

Arutar's Avatar


Arutar
04.18.2013 , 06:34 AM | #1164
Quote: Originally Posted by Devlonir View Post
But the inbalance of these weird situations is not nearly as big as the inbalance in PVP in general was pre-2.0. There is no 60-80% power difference that can be gained through abusing the Bolster bugs. And because of that, it is already superior to pre-2.0 PVP.
Not in my experience.

Under lvl 55 WZ are at the moment much more imbalanced than they were before.

With the exception of the dreaded lvl 49 pimped twinks, pre lvl 50 WZ before the patch were almost perfectly balanced anyway with everyones hp between around 11-13k HP. When 2.0 went live, you could see people between 18k and 33k HP in the lvl 30-54 WZ. Two hotfixes later, there still is a potential gap of 6-7k HP (23k to around 29K).

LVL 55 WZ zones now see around 25kHP to 33K HP (we are not even discussing the mess when 2.0 went live). Expertise varies largely depending on the question if people got the memo of removing the expertise crystals from their old PVP gear.

PVP NOW is a mess.

And do not get me wrong: My juggernaut has read all the memos and now sits happily at the top of the food chain with 32K HP at lvl 55 and about 1,8K expertise (mostly remodded EWH + Conquerer+Partisan). I just would never dare to claim that it is more balanced now.

Faltun's Avatar


Faltun
04.18.2013 , 06:50 AM | #1165
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
The second issue we want to address is concerns over the balance between level 55 PvE and PvP gear. We have seen some reports from players around the forums and in this thread that they are seeing players wearing Underworld or Arkanian gear having higher stats under Bolster than people wearing Partisan or Conqueror.

After some investigation, it appears that this is true, but it is not intended. Although we always want to keep the PvP environment competitive even for players not wearing full PvP sets, Partisan and Conqueror should be performing better in Warzones than their PvE counterparts. We will be deploying a fix for this in 2.0.1 which will be coming out on Tuesday.

I know there is still a bit of confusion around the Bolster system, how it affects stats and Expertise and I am working on getting some more information on it. Sometime after 2.0.1 I am going to work with the combat team on getting a “mathy” post explaining a bit about Bolster and how it works which will hopefully work to clear up some confusion. As you can imagine, it is a pretty complex system.

I hope that alleviates some of your concerns with the issue of PvE v PvP gearing and thank you all for your feedback.

-eric

I think they should delete bolster for lvl55 wz and make a recruit gear free with abaout 1800 expertise or something like that with low stats and dont let ppl q up for wz under 1800 expertise so they must wear the standard pvp gear and players who are in pvp gear dont lose wzs anymore cuz they have bad teamates with 0 expertise who feeds the enemy's score on hypergate wz, its unfair i work so much on my pvp gear and a pve geared guy has almost the same stats or better than me, but i cant do hard operations in pvp gear. BW SHOULDNT LET PLAYERS Q UP FOR WZ IN PVE GEAR!!!

DarkFireShadow's Avatar


DarkFireShadow
04.18.2013 , 07:02 AM | #1166
Also give us people that are not yet lvl 55 buy something other than WZ med packs and adrenals...

Kilora's Avatar


Kilora
04.18.2013 , 07:09 AM | #1167
Quote: Originally Posted by Kirtastropohe View Post
As others have said, please address the empty slots issue as well. Don't put in a fix for a problem you're finally acknowledging (pve being better than pvp gear) and then fail to address another big issue where people have to rip stuff out of their gear and have empty slots to get best stats.

I'm going to check these forums tuesday/wednesday, and if the system isn't fixed, and if it still punishes those who ground their gear out, I might finally pull the plug on this game.
Check out the dev tracker -- they've already addressed this issue. And if it hasn't been completely solved already, it will be on Tuesday.

They've stated, as an example, that empty relic slots were being given stats that were better than any in-game relics. And they've also stated they tuned down the amount of stats you gain from an empty slot.

Now, you're always better off having a piece of gear in a slot -- but not punshed too much for being too low a level to equip a piece in that slot.

Kilora's Avatar


Kilora
04.18.2013 , 07:12 AM | #1168
Quote: Originally Posted by Faltun View Post
I think they should delete bolster for lvl55 wz and make a recruit gear free with abaout 1800 expertise or something like that with low stats and dont let ppl q up for wz under 1900 expertise so they must wear the standard pvp gear and players who are in pvp gear dont lose wzs anymore cuz they have bad teamates with 0 expertise who feeds the enemy's score on hypergate wz, its unfair i work so much on my pvp gear and a pve geared guy has almost the same stats or better than me, but i cant do hard operations in pvp gear. BW SHOULDNT LET PLAYERS Q UP FOR WZ IN PVE GEAR!!!
Uh, excuse me?

"I can't do hard operations in PvP gear" -- guess what? You can do SM operations through the groupfinder. You can ALSO do HM FPs.

If they remove bolster and stop PvE-geared people from queueing for WZs, they need to ban all players wearing a single piece of PvP gear from running ANY PvE content.

Ontop of that -- PvE gear is meant to be below PvP gear at all points. Once they fix this on Tuesday, it will be no different than giving out a free set of recruit gear -- without actually having the gear.

Azarai's Avatar


Azarai
04.18.2013 , 07:15 AM | #1169
Quote: Originally Posted by Arutar View Post
Not in my experience.

Under lvl 55 WZ are at the moment much more imbalanced than they were before.

With the exception of the dreaded lvl 49 pimped twinks, pre lvl 50 WZ before the patch were almost perfectly balanced anyway with everyones hp between around 11-13k HP. When 2.0 went live, you could see people between 18k and 33k HP in the lvl 30-54 WZ. Two hotfixes later, there still is a potential gap of 6-7k HP (23k to around 29K).

LVL 55 WZ zones now see around 25kHP to 33K HP (we are not even discussing the mess when 2.0 went live). Expertise varies largely depending on the question if people got the memo of removing the expertise crystals from their old PVP gear.

PVP NOW is a mess.

And do not get me wrong: My juggernaut has read all the memos and now sits happily at the top of the food chain with 32K HP at lvl 55 and about 1,8K expertise (mostly remodded EWH + Conquerer+Partisan). I just would never dare to claim that it is more balanced now.
Not to mention there are certain things that can be done to create 45k smash monkeys in the 55 bracket if you're willing to spend some money, creating quite the huge gap between people. Anybody who says that bolster doesn't create an unbalanced system are only trying to fool themselves. It's hard to understand why people are in such support of a broken system. If BW can't figure out such advanced programming and algorithms, do the easy thing and either create free GEAR for their intended stats they want for introductory play, or make everybody start with the same stats/expertise for their specific role and if that number isn't met, that's what you are automatically bolstered to. Whatever they're doing now is obviously just not working and each 'fix' they try seems to just screw the pooch even more.
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chaosmadness's Avatar


chaosmadness
04.18.2013 , 07:19 AM | #1170
Quote: Originally Posted by Cruz View Post
hope you(Bioware) have fun with your new clients, i hope they are as good as me at least... Thanks for ruining the game for me that am here from the beginning and making my "hard earned" pvp gear into pve gear xD...
time to sub out... Good luck in your future endeavors :P
Patience is a virtue man...2.0 have 1 week.
Make other things ur priorities instead of swtor. Games are for fun