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Why rise of the Hutt Cartel is a failure

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why rise of the Hutt Cartel is a failure

Kilora's Avatar


Kilora
04.17.2013 , 12:35 PM | #201
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
Players make those choices all the time. They just don't have any effect on the universe at all, and barely any impact on the player's universe either.
That is my entire point. . .

In an MMO, I see how difficult it can be to have each individual make decisions that ACTUALLY affect the world.

If you have everyone playing in their own universe -- how is it an MMO?

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
04.17.2013 , 12:39 PM | #202
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
Really? Maybe you should play the Jedi Knight to the end of Chapter 3... and then play any of the Empire to the end of Makeb...

Maybe you'd see how the stories intertwine.

However, all MMO's have the your questing totally independent from the other players. "I helped that guy find his 10 sacks of flour a year ago and yet he's still asking people for help..."

This is nothing new.
I am referring to how I as a player can (for example) simultaneously be fighting to free Balmorra from Imperial occupation and fighting to conquer Balmorra for the Empire simply by logging out one character and logging in the other.

To you second point, I agree. I think the difference is that the world of most MMO's exists frozen in time, it's just frozen in the same time for all players in the world, and not faction or character dependant.

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
04.17.2013 , 12:42 PM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilora View Post
That is my entire point. . .

In an MMO, I see how difficult it can be to have each individual make decisions that ACTUALLY affect the world.

If you have everyone playing in their own universe -- how is it an MMO?
You're preaching to the choir here.

It's long been my argument that this design decision was a bad one and contributes greatly to the lifeless feel of the game world as a community. Solo players who never interact with other players would likely feel the opposite since the overall game world means nothing to them.

Kilora's Avatar


Kilora
04.17.2013 , 12:47 PM | #204
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
You're preaching to the choir here.

It's long been my argument that this design decision was a bad one and contributes greatly to the lifeless feel of the game world as a community. Solo players who never interact with other players would likely feel the opposite since the overall game world means nothing to them.
I can't tell whether or not I agree with you. . .

This is a fault I've seen in every single MMO i've ever played. One of the reasons I love single-player RPGs -- it's easy for me to decide to kill off an entire race, and have it ACTUALLY happen. Actual consequences for decisions made.

I've never seen that in any MMOs -- in fact, I think SWTOR get's the closest. Considering the absolute lack of storyline in most other MMOs I've played.

I'd love to see them find a way to have players "vote" on changes -- as in, the majority of people chose to attack the republic on Taris and kill one of the Jedi there -- so it will now affect everyone in the game. But I feel we'd get a lot of QQ over that as well >.<

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
04.17.2013 , 12:51 PM | #205
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilora View Post
That is my entire point. . .

In an MMO, I see how difficult it can be to have each individual make decisions that ACTUALLY affect the world.

If you have everyone playing in their own universe -- how is it an MMO?
Um... follow along with me
M = Massive
M = Multiplayer
O = Online

The term "massive" is debatable, but is it a game where a large number of players can play together online? Yes? then it's an MMO. It's an RPG because it has RPG elements. COD isn't an MMO because you're limited by the number of players who can exist together, at once. Planetside 2 is an MMO, but it's a MMOFPS. This is a MMORPG.

But any game that's an RPG, as CosmicKat pointed out, is lacking when it comes to a computer world. You're limited on what you can do based on the rules of the game. It's a glorified table-top game that has rules on movement, combat, etc. In those games you can't simply do whatever you want. It's not a true RPG like say a World of Darkness game such as Vampire: The Masquerade.

dscount's Avatar


dscount
04.17.2013 , 01:01 PM | #206
I think the additional content was worth the $10 and the increase in levels was worth it as well. Not excited about the kick in the balls for crafting in general, but at least we did get some new stuff out of 2.0 rollout.

PROS:
  • PVP Bolster - Now separates gear gap vs. player skill and makes it "PvP" again!
  • Crafting Black-xxx Crystals (Why did this take a year+)
  • Crafting 25/28 Level items from Vendor schematics (No idea why 25's are now needed, but okay)
  • Strange, but very graphically enriched and creative planet to ooh and awh over
  • FIVE (5) more levels to obtain for your character that includes a faction story
  • New HM FP's that drop decent gear (Credits still stuck in SM version levels, but gear is good)
  • New Operation that includes some great boss fights (Seven of them)
  • Crazy cool scavenging hunt stuff with Bino/Seeker stuff (yes a time sink, but still fun mini-game if bored)
  • SET BONUS no longer tied to shells and placed on ARMOR slot imprinted (Finally)

CONS:
  • PVP naked Bolster screw up - This should have been fixed prior to go live (PTS pointed it out)
  • Mass Generators only found in S&V end boss fight drops (HUH? Exotics drops in SM TFB, but these are MIA?)
  • Crew Missions / Gathering Drop Rates are Terrible
  • Crafting BiS (Okay, but sub-BiS crafting sucks w/o mats dropping)
  • Massive amount of Missions fill up limited 25 Log cap
  • COMM CAPS - Why we have this only punishes the casual player (Altaholics have work arounds)
  • STATS are all jacked up! (Yes, CRIT specifically, but nice to Alacrity has new meaning now)
  • Mainhand/Offhand barrels & armor has slot imprinted limitations (Should be able to move between them - workaround is to just get one of the 30's from Crafting folks and Mod/Enh from any other gear)
Reference Link: Why not? http://www.swtor.com/r/FDltnT
WTB Legacy Bound Ear, Implants, Relics

PurpleLynx's Avatar


PurpleLynx
04.17.2013 , 01:11 PM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
You're preaching to the choir here.

It's long been my argument that this design decision was a bad one and contributes greatly to the lifeless feel of the game world as a community. Solo players who never interact with other players would likely feel the opposite since the overall game world means nothing to them.
Bolded for emphasis. Why do you say that. I play in a duo usually, and the game world is rich to me, I do a lot of stuff that makes me feel like I am doing my part whatever side I am on. I also understand that this is a multiplayer game, and only so much can be changed for me and my little world. If i wanted it differently, I would play a Single Player game. There is tech out there to make small changes, but massive sweeping changes are not remotely possible with today's tech in a mutiplayer game. But to say as a solo/small group player the game world means nothing to me is just plain wrong. if anything its the raiders and PVPers that don't care about the game world. They repeatably kill the same raid boss 2 to 3 times a day. Jedi kill jedi, troopers kill troopers all in the name of gameplay. If they were to enact changes like what you seem to want, a raid would be run ONCE, and once only. The false emperor would be killed once, and no one could do that again, ever. Artifact weapons would be unique items, one person in the whole server would have that item, and no one else would be able to have it. If this is what ya want, I am sure that most players would disagree with you. They had this in Gemstone and MajorMud (granted not a real mmo, but still serves my point.) and people would hunt down folks that had these items, and kill them, led to a paranoid lifestyle of playing I sure as hell don't want.

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
04.17.2013 , 01:13 PM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
Um... follow along with me
M = Massive
M = Multiplayer
O = Online

The term "massive" is debatable, but is it a game where a large number of players can play together online? Yes? then it's an MMO. It's an RPG because it has RPG elements. COD isn't an MMO because you're limited by the number of players who can exist together, at once. Planetside 2 is an MMO, but it's a MMOFPS. This is a MMORPG.

But any game that's an RPG, as CosmicKat pointed out, is lacking when it comes to a computer world. You're limited on what you can do based on the rules of the game. It's a glorified table-top game that has rules on movement, combat, etc. In those games you can't simply do whatever you want. It's not a true RPG like say a World of Darkness game such as Vampire: The Masquerade.
I like to use Fallout as an example to differentiate between a "console RPG" and a "PC RPG".

Fallout 3 was a console RPG. It has a strong main story that the player can influence to a degree, but the end of the story is scripted before you even start. The side quests are just mini-adventures that have no influence on the story at all. Bypassing them completely will not effect the story. The character you play is a Chosen One and your role is pre-determined. The story is the game, ignoring it would make it a terrible game.

Fallout: New Vegas was a PC RPG. It has a pretty weak main story but the player has massive influence on how it turns out. There are at least 4 distinct endings. Many of the side quests are crucial to the ending you want (story-wise), but those who bypass them will miss out most of the game. The character you play is not a Chosen One, just a hero (or villain) in the world. The story frames the game world, but it is not the game.

The console game RPG is what we have in TOR. You are a spectator to the story. You are a Chosen One and the end is already written before you start.

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
04.17.2013 , 01:15 PM | #209
Quote: Originally Posted by PurpleLynx View Post
Bolded for emphasis. Why do you say that. I play in a duo usually, and the game world is rich to me, I do a lot of stuff that makes me feel like I am doing my part whatever side I am on. I also understand that this is a multiplayer game, and only so much can be changed for me and my little world. If i wanted it differently, I would play a Single Player game. There is tech out there to make small changes, but massive sweeping changes are not remotely possible with today's tech in a mutiplayer game. But to say as a solo/small group player the game world means nothing to me is just plain wrong. if anything its the raiders and PVPers that don't care about the game world. They repeatably kill the same raid boss 2 to 3 times a day. Jedi kill jedi, troopers kill troopers all in the name of gameplay. If they were to enact changes like what you seem to want, a raid would be run ONCE, and once only. The false emperor would be killed once, and no one could do that again, ever. Artifact weapons would be unique items, one person in the whole server would have that item, and no one else would be able to have it. If this is what ya want, I am sure that most players would disagree with you. They had this in Gemstone and MajorMud (granted not a real mmo, but still serves my point.) and people would hunt down folks that had these items, and kill them, led to a paranoid lifestyle of playing I sure as hell don't want.
I don't disagree with you.

My argument is that if that is the case, and it must be the case in a multiplayer world, then why try to force a single character driven story into it?

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
04.17.2013 , 01:18 PM | #210
Many reasons why RoTC is a failure, but the most glaring is the lack of developmental skills and poor Q/A on EA's part.

Rushing content to make a few bucks on a crappy xpac is apparently EA's way of saying they don't care.

The amount of broken issues is awful, and fully mirrors the skills of the development team. Atrocious.