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Why should I feel bad about wanting to faceroll fresh 55's?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why should I feel bad about wanting to faceroll fresh 55's?

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
04.17.2013 , 12:35 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by VigDiath View Post
But why? Wouldn't it feel better to go against people equally geared/skilled as yourself so that when you do come out on top you know that you ARE the better player. I never understood that in life or in games.

Why go after the easy target? Why not go after the harder target and feel better rewarded because you actually accomplished something other than picking on the weak, so to speak.

Either way, I'm ok with starting off being the guy being beat on because of my bad gear and turning it around once I get better gear. Really, I think people should know that until you get better at this game, or any game, you can expect to be stomped if you are in bad gear. If you have Bis gear after and still suck then you know it's not the gear and it's you instead.
Why? Because it provides me with a tangible reward for having put in my time to get the gear. Gear has to give you an edge. Otherwise, why try to acquire it? I don't like going after the easy target. Well honestly, I like a little of both. I love going against someone of equal skill and equal gear. I also love going against some players with good gear who are not as skilled to take them down a peg sometimes. But I also think I should be able to faceroll a SKILLED fresh 55 who hasn't taken the time to get the gear like I have. That is the carrot, and without it I wouldn't take the time to grind the gear. I am not sying there is any honor it it. I just don't think I should be ashamed of enjoying it. I went throught it, and it only made me want to get the gear more.

Also, when I am in a WZ, I don't take the time to find someone who is an "easy target." I go after opposing players based on strategy and what is going on in the WZ at the time. I don't do open workd PVP, b/c I am on a PVE server. During the Gree event in Ilum, I NEVER griefed lesser geared/skilled players. What I was saying is that when I faceroll someone in a WZ, and it is because they didn't have the gear that I did, I enjoy it. I didn't seek it out. But i enjoyed it because it makes me feel like the gear I worked hard to acquire was worth it.

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
04.17.2013 , 12:44 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by bglodt View Post
This post has some glaring errors in it. When I started at launch... We started equally. And as time went on the gap got bigger. I didn't even realize how big it was till I rolled an Alt and was like wt*. It is not fun, or fair, to have new pvp players thrown into a match with not just a skill discrepancy but a a huge gear gap. I'm taking about a gap so large that regardless of your skill level you can't overcome it. I experienced that as well when I had to leave for a month or two for work...

You want no bolster, fine. Make it so that if your gear is above a certain level you can only que with similarly geared players. I guarantee you'll be on here in 1 week complaining of how long the que times are... While the "lower gear people" will be on here talking about how great pvp is now.

You earn your stripes by playing matches, not by getting better gear and beating on people who don't have a chance. I found no amusement in that. Awesome... There's the same poor kid trying to play the game.... 3-4 GCD later he's dead... Yea for me. That was hard. I pushed 4 buttons and burned through all his def cooldowns, I'm awesome. I beat this new kid... Who had 16k health. I'm the man. I'm so good at pvp.

Seriously? and btw, if you don't live at home with your parents or in a dorm, and have a career and a family you can't play 3 hours a day to get the best gear in a week. Does that mean you soul don't be able to play or contribute to pvp? I bet the majority of the subscribers fall into this group. BW is a business they need and should continue to cater to the majority of their clientele, not the overly vocal minority, who have egos to stroke.
First off, I understand what you are saying. I really do empathize with your post. I would also like to add that I work 50 hours per week, and have two children. So i had to go through the gear grind slowly like yourself, and I took my beatings in the beginning for a while. And i am not saying I like "beating on people who don't have a chance." If i did, I would have griefed people during the Gree event (I am on a PVE server, so open world PVP is limited, i.e., nonexistent, other than during the Gree event on Ilum). All I was saying was that when I am fighting someone in a WZ, and they go down quickly because my gear or skill far surpassed them because they just started PVP, I enjoy it sometimes. It makes me feel good to know that the time I spent increasing my gear and/or my skill was not for nothing. If it was always a fight down to the wire and evenly matched, I would feel like the gear hunt was for nothing. But that doesn't mean I don't like a fair fight. I LOVE it. I like a mix. And I think most probably feel the same way. But that is just my opinion, and an unsubstanitated presumption.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
04.17.2013 , 12:47 PM | #23
Assuming completely mirror matchups (otherwise class matchup can be a much bigger factor) with equal gear, skill is what lets you win maybe 6 out of 10 or 3 out of 4 instead of just 1 out of 2 against your opponent.

It's because skill actually doesn't get you very much in this game that people need gear as a crutch. With EWH gear, WZ adrenal, and WZ medpack on my back I can comfortably win 9 out of 10 in some matchups. Now that the gear advantage is lessened it's only about 3 out of 4. It you take away my medpack and adrenal it's going to go even closer to 1 out of 2. This is supposed to be a good thing. I shouldn't be winning because I have better/more drugs than the enemy.

Simbr's Avatar


Simbr
04.17.2013 , 12:51 PM | #24
You shouldn't, only Failware should feel bad. This is a game, if players can kill they have the right to and enjoying it is the whole point of the experience!

I remember a term from Non-carebear PvP games, "red = dead", now its "pvp on old the republic = dead"

FelixGoldenHeart's Avatar


FelixGoldenHeart
04.17.2013 , 12:54 PM | #25
Lol I feel like I'm in group therapy.

(Speaking mainly from a pre-2.0 standpoint)
I kill noobs because it's funny to see them rage. It's not that I can't take down the awesome geared people, because I can. Sure it's fun for me too, but killing noobs is... a different kind of fun. To further my opinions on this, I have ran the wheel and gotten the gear. I've taken 2 on 1 and won. I've taken 3 on 1, and died on the final target. I can take most people solo. It's a combonation of I know my class/rotations and my gear was good. Gear is slightly less important because I've seen people dominate in full recruit vs full EWH before.

What it boils down to for me is I like killing, regardless of who. I often challenge the best players on my server just because fighting them (winning or losing) helps improve my skill as a player. But I'm not above killing complete noobs either.

In War, Victory. In Peace, Vigilance. In Death, Sacrifice.

Keldaur's Avatar


Keldaur
04.17.2013 , 12:56 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Simbr View Post
You shouldn't, only Failware should feel bad. This is a game, if players can kill they have the right to and enjoying it is the whole point of the experience!

I remember a term from Non-carebear PvP games, "red = dead", now its "pvp on old the republic = dead"
It's Red = KoS (kill on sight)

Meh, i already gave up with MMORPGs as pvp games. They just plainly suck, most of them are warzone/battleground based, and they don't even work a little to make them really work (balancing classes/roles/matchmaking before the game even starts). Over the years, and playing other games which are not MMORPGs, you see how It's a watered down PvP experience to catter PvE'rs who enjoy carrots.

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
04.17.2013 , 12:57 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
Assuming completely mirror matchups (otherwise class matchup can be a much bigger factor) with equal gear, skill is what lets you win maybe 6 out of 10 or 3 out of 4 instead of just 1 out of 2 against your opponent.

It's because skill actually doesn't get you very much in this game that people need gear as a crutch. With EWH gear, WZ adrenal, and WZ medpack on my back I can comfortably win 9 out of 10 in some matchups. Now that the gear advantage is lessened it's only about 3 out of 4. It you take away my medpack and adrenal it's going to go even closer to 1 out of 2. This is supposed to be a good thing. I shouldn't be winning because I have better/more drugs than the enemy.
You don't have better/more drugs than the enemy. They have access to the same drugs as you. I didn't want this thread to turn into a skill vs gear debate. But i guess it was unavoidable. What you are saying reminds me of something alot of people used to tell me when I was in school, "I am really smart, I just don't study." Well guess what, if you don't study, you are not as smart as you think you are. Skill and preaparation for a WZ, i.e., acquiring gear and medpacs/adrenals, go hand in hand. I would argue that a skilled player that doesn't adequately prepare for a WZ is not as skilled as he thinks. Gearing and preparation and knowing your rotation and the weaknesses of other classes are all part of being skilled. The distinction between skill and gear is less clear than many of you think, in my opinion. That is not really what this thread is about. The means by which you acquire an advantage over lesser players is not the issue in this thread. The issue is that I think that advantage should exist, and should be determined by the time and effort a player puts into obtaining that advantage. Accordingly, that player should not feel bad when he takes advantage of that advantage (sorry if that was confusing).

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
04.17.2013 , 01:00 PM | #28
Sigh... It's hard to get mad at a well written, eloquent (is that redundant?) post. That said I can't really agree with the sentiment of enjoying face rolling... Just because or justifying it because, we went through it. In 2004 they (the Joint Commission) implemented a rule that resident physicians could only work 80 hrs per week and no more than 30 consecutive hours with no new patients the last 6. People were pissed. They were like we did it why can't they! I came in the middle of that... And I can tell you thank god for the limits.

The point is just because "we" did it, or went through it doesn't mean that's the way it should be. Wouldn't it have been more enjoyable for you in the beginning if yiu didn't get lol stomped? The biggest joy I get is when I play against a premade in a mostly pug and either win or give them a go of it. The only thing, IMHO, good about fighting lower/under geared players is that I got dailies/weeklies done faster.

I like the carrot at the end of the stick too. I just think the carrot should be non game changing, like better titles, better looking shells, weapons with cool affects, stuff like that. Then I can show up in a WZ with my sparkly gun and glowing helmet and they opponents will go "damn that guy has logged some pvp time". Hopefully at the end of the match they aren't thinking "dang all that pvp time and he still sucks!"
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
04.17.2013 , 01:01 PM | #29
totally posted in the wrong thread...its been a long day.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
04.17.2013 , 01:32 PM | #30
Until recently when the price of WZ adrenal/medpack crashed, they were absolutely a 'gear' part. They're not even usable optimally (which would be chugging as many as you reasonably can) even for fairly hardcore players and not usable strategically for any casual player. If something can be bought with credits it's not skill. Preparing for the enemy would be skill if it's like say, "I know these guy like to hit this spot with these guys so we need to be ready for it". Running an alt to do dailys for more WZ adrenal/medpack is not skill. It's like saying being level 55 instead of level 54 before you try to gank someone is skill because obviously being at level 55 gives you a better chance to successfully gank someone.