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Why rise of the Hutt Cartel is a failure

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why rise of the Hutt Cartel is a failure

Kilora's Avatar


Kilora
04.17.2013 , 09:07 AM | #191
Quote: Originally Posted by silent-sniper View Post
I agree with most of what you said, but there is still a huge proportion of people that will level 1 or 2 lvl 55's really quickly, for example people in guilds, many people saved up all their dailys to hand in as soon as the early access began, myself included, then leveled as a group, doing this with all the experience boosts avaliable made leveling really quick, that isnt to say they didnt enjoy it, infact, it is more fun with a group of 4. It is just quick.
Leveling I'm not arguing about -- but just leveling 50-55 isn't the only content in the game. In fact, it's fairly minimal.

My main was 55 the same day I got access -- but I'm still working on getting myself good gear, still working on rep and crafting, still working on macro/seeker quests. I agree that the leveling was quick -- but I think it was a decent balance. It wasn't so insane that I felt I accomplished nothing -- but quick enough that people who "rush" it will be happy. As far as content -- I think it also artificially "increases" the perception of the amount of content.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
04.17.2013 , 09:13 AM | #192
Quote: Originally Posted by silent-sniper View Post
I agree with most of what you said, but there is still a huge proportion of people that will level 1 or 2 lvl 55's really quickly, for example people in guilds, many people saved up all their dailys to hand in as soon as the early access began, myself included, then leveled as a group, doing this with all the experience boosts avaliable made leveling really quick, that isnt to say they didnt enjoy it, infact, it is more fun with a group of 4. It is just quick.
I hope you're not trying to say that your quick leveling from 50 to 55 was a game design/development problem, given that you just said you pretty much did all you could to enhance your leveling speed.

No game can keep up with obsessively rapid levelers/content burners no matter how frequently new content comes out. There is no reason to even try or to do so or even to acknowledge that as a legitimate play style.

Alavastre's Avatar


Alavastre
04.17.2013 , 09:26 AM | #193
Quote: Originally Posted by silent-sniper View Post
I understand, that it is an MMO, but when every decision you make, and everything you say make no difference to what the NPC says, it just feels lazy and makes me question whether there is any point even having the decisions, because it becomes what the end of mass effect 3 was, click A, B or C
It's not about laziness. It's about storing data. Kotor, you had decisions and those decisions were stored on your hard drive, flash card, whatever. Here they need to store thousands of user character data including decisions you made. It's a matter of technology more than anything else. This is why the story doesn't affect as much of change as other games. Why? Because there are other people. What happens if you blow up a temple, and then your friend asked you to go back into it to help out? How do you separate meaningful realities in MMO's?

You were expecting an KotoR MMO instead of an MMO in the KotoR universe. There is nothing anyone can do to help you out with that. I may agree the stories could be better and more intricate even in an MMO, but there is no real way to have meaningful choices like in the KotoR games. At least, not yet.
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

silent-sniper's Avatar


silent-sniper
04.17.2013 , 09:30 AM | #194
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilora View Post
Leveling I'm not arguing about -- but just leveling 50-55 isn't the only content in the game. In fact, it's fairly minimal.

My main was 55 the same day I got access -- but I'm still working on getting myself good gear, still working on rep and crafting, still working on macro/seeker quests. I agree that the leveling was quick -- but I think it was a decent balance. It wasn't so insane that I felt I accomplished nothing -- but quick enough that people who "rush" it will be happy. As far as content -- I think it also artificially "increases" the perception of the amount of content.
Oh I agree, there is new content, but it still feels like the old stuff, this isnt much that makes me excited, s&v is not biowares best op, in my humble opinion. My problem isn't the amount of content coming out, in fact I am fine waiting, I waited years for this game, I would prefer the content that comes out though, to offer a greater challenge and be of slightly better quality, that isnt me saying it is bad, but I have come to expect more of bioware, that is only because I regard them as possibly the best makers in the RPG genre, before people complain at me and say this still isnt an RPG, I am aware, I have played several MMO's but they are MMORPG's, at their core, for me anyway, they should be RPG's and I feel bioware is capable of better than they have shown with RotHC

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
04.17.2013 , 11:58 AM | #195
Quote: Originally Posted by Alavastre View Post
It's not about laziness. It's about storing data. Kotor, you had decisions and those decisions were stored on your hard drive, flash card, whatever. Here they need to store thousands of user character data including decisions you made. It's a matter of technology more than anything else. This is why the story doesn't affect as much of change as other games. Why? Because there are other people. What happens if you blow up a temple, and then your friend asked you to go back into it to help out? How do you separate meaningful realities in MMO's?

You were expecting an KotoR MMO instead of an MMO in the KotoR universe. There is nothing anyone can do to help you out with that. I may agree the stories could be better and more intricate even in an MMO, but there is no real way to have meaningful choices like in the KotoR games. At least, not yet.
Their design is that all characters exist in separate realities. Republic and Imperial factions exist in separate realities, or at least timelines. They already have the giant continuity and logic problem of having thousands of players playing in their own universe.

Storage limitations are a complete non-factor. It would take literally bytes of data to track this, and I'm pretty sure they've got more than the 2TB I have.

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
04.17.2013 , 12:04 PM | #196
Quote: Originally Posted by silent-sniper View Post
Oh I agree, there is new content, but it still feels like the old stuff, this isnt much that makes me excited, s&v is not biowares best op, in my humble opinion. My problem isn't the amount of content coming out, in fact I am fine waiting, I waited years for this game, I would prefer the content that comes out though, to offer a greater challenge and be of slightly better quality, that isnt me saying it is bad, but I have come to expect more of bioware, that is only because I regard them as possibly the best makers in the RPG genre, before people complain at me and say this still isnt an RPG, I am aware, I have played several MMO's but they are MMORPG's, at their core, for me anyway, they should be RPG's and I feel bioware is capable of better than they have shown with RotHC
Bioware used to make RPG's, they now make cinematic adventure games. A "true" RPG does not shoe-horn a player into playing a pre-created character (or choice of several pre-created characters) through a pre-scripted story. These are console-game RPG's, where freedom to play as you want, how you want is sacrificed for cinematic flair.

Kilora's Avatar


Kilora
04.17.2013 , 12:20 PM | #197
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
Their design is that all characters exist in separate realities. Republic and Imperial factions exist in separate realities, or at least timelines. They already have the giant continuity and logic problem of having thousands of players playing in their own universe.

Storage limitations are a complete non-factor. It would take literally bytes of data to track this, and I'm pretty sure they've got more than the 2TB I have.
I think he said it wrong -- it isn't about data, it's about variables.

Storage isn't what matters. How do you handle allowing one person to make a change that affects "the entire universe" yet no one else is affected by that? Players are BARELY playing in their own universe.

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
04.17.2013 , 12:24 PM | #198
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
Their design is that all characters exist in separate realities. Republic and Imperial factions exist in separate realities, or at least timelines. They already have the giant continuity and logic problem of having thousands of players playing in their own universe.

Storage limitations are a complete non-factor. It would take literally bytes of data to track this, and I'm pretty sure they've got more than the 2TB I have.
Really? Maybe you should play the Jedi Knight to the end of Chapter 3... and then play any of the Empire to the end of Makeb...

Maybe you'd see how the stories intertwine.

However, all MMO's have the your questing totally independent from the other players. "I helped that guy find his 10 sacks of flour a year ago and yet he's still asking people for help..."

This is nothing new.

islander's Avatar


islander
04.17.2013 , 12:29 PM | #199
It's an excellent expansion, especially for the price involved.
Unless you're a 'career' PvPer, then it blows chunks.
Gėllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
04.17.2013 , 12:34 PM | #200
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilora View Post
I think he said it wrong -- it isn't about data, it's about variables.

Storage isn't what matters. How do you handle allowing one person to make a change that affects "the entire universe" yet no one else is affected by that? Players are BARELY playing in their own universe.
Players make those choices all the time. They just don't have any effect on the universe at all, and barely any impact on the player's universe either.