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Underworld (72's) in pvp

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Underworld (72's) in pvp
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znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
04.16.2013 , 10:54 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
But they werent... That is a common misconception... BH/CAMP was only a slight nerf compared to WH/EWH in the PvP arena. A 20% damage boost on WH gear was not a 20% boost when compared to BH, it was more like 10%. It also depended on which AC you were running.

New caps:
PvP Damage Boost 60%
PvP Healing Boost 20%
PvP Damage Reduction 37.5%
PvP Trauma has been increased to 35% (up from 30%).


If the max is 2018, then raid PvE gear has to have EXP in the neighborhood of 1500EXP to account for PvP gear EXP numbers, but still being a slight nerf in the PvP arena. even with this, how EXP Bolster works on lvl 55 toons with no lvl 63+ needs to be correct too. So I think EXP bolster needs to be strong, but applied correctly as to not make new PvP gear worthless...
I think you are correct, reviewing the numbers I had for DPS/HP on level 72 gear and the ones you gave me. It seem Underworld will need some boosting, but the 1500 EXP you gave is a lot. Rough calculations will put it near 1000 EXP.
However this is weird as what the DEVs said that the higher tier gear will not need any boosting as the extra dps/HP they have will compensate for lack of expertise.
SWTOR: KotFE, Rise of the Ehh I guess I'll get used to it eventually
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Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
04.16.2013 , 11:02 AM | #62
According to what the devs said I'd assume a guy in full Underworld gear would have 0 expertise because that is the highest level of PvE gear and shouldn't get any boost, and I'm pretty sure a full set of Underworld gear isn't going to do 60% more damage than Conqueror gear in PvE so it'd be fine in PvP.

I posted this before but some rough calculation shows Underworld Barrel/Hlt is about 3% more damage and the 68 Expertise is worth about 2% damage increase + a corresponding % damage decrease so it's strictly worse for anyone but an offensive specialist. In a identical 1on1 match the guy with Underworld gear will hit his Conqueror opponent for 1% more (+3% damage - 2% damage reduction) but take 2% more damage and will be expected to lose if everything else is equal. An offensive specialist who has no concern for his safety would benefit from this setup, though this term is really something of an oxymoron because if you're good enough to be a offensive powerhouse it'd seem like people would want to kill you quick too, so you've to be a potent DPS without ever being noticed for retaliation.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
04.16.2013 , 11:06 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by znihilist View Post
I think you are correct, reviewing the numbers I had for DPS/HP on level 72 gear and the ones you gave me. It seem Underworld will need some boosting, but the 1500 EXP you gave is a lot. Rough calculations will put it near 1000 EXP.
However this is weird as what the DEVs said that the higher tier gear will not need any boosting as the extra dps/HP they have will compensate for lack of expertise.
I am still wondering the same as well. For sure armor rating is lower on new PvP gear than the new PvE ones so armor based DR takes a hit. I also took numbers off of Dulfy and the new PvE Main/END are 20-40% higher than the new PvP ones. So if PvP puts EXP around 60% damage, then EXP bolster on PvE needs to be around 40%(1500EXP) because EXP is a "global" multiplier. I feel that is pretty fair trade, but again I need to see some in game numbers, but if the number is higher than 1500EXP, then:

HOUSTON(AUSTIN) ,WE HAVE A PROBLEM!
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
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morinesse's Avatar


morinesse
04.16.2013 , 11:09 AM | #64
speculation, every willys an his uncles...

as a matter of fact the new system is confusin rite now,
it lacks some transparency....

i dont think either arkanian or underworld gear is superior to conqueror pvp stuff
but eventually usin arkanian / underworld mainhand / offhand (hilts / barrels only?) is...
due to the superior damage rating an force / techpower...

its the authorities call if they wanne share there wisdom with us or not...
takes some time till we can do some serious testin i reckon...

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
04.16.2013 , 11:16 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
I am still wondering the same as well. For sure armor rating is lower on new PvP gear than the new PvE ones so armor based DR takes a hit. I also took numbers off of Dulfy and the new PvE Main/END are 20-40% higher than the new PvP ones. So if PvP puts EXP around 60% damage, then EXP bolster on PvE needs to be around 40%(1500EXP) because EXP is a "global" multiplier. I feel that is pretty fair trade, but again I need to see some in game numbers, but if the number is higher than 1500EXP, then:

HOUSTON(AUSTIN) ,WE HAVE A PROBLEM!
40% more main stat is not the same as 40% more damage. You will definitely not do 40% more damage having 40% more main stat.

The Underworld hilt/barrel is around 150 more Force/Tech power than the Conqueror hilt/barrel (I used my 131 power WH to simulate this) and it's roughly 3% change in DPS done (varies depending on the attack chosen) in this simulation. It should have more main stat too but it's not going to have enough to get anywhere close to another 1% of damage. Okay so it'd be 3% more on something like 1.58X Expertise modifier (assuming this is the only slot you swap out) but I don't see how it can push your DPS over 4% so it won't even beat 2% offense and 2% defense 68 Expertise grants assuming you value offense and defense equally.

RobHinkle's Avatar


RobHinkle
04.16.2013 , 11:17 AM | #66 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
I am still wondering the same as well. For sure armor rating is lower on new PvP gear than the new PvE ones so armor based DR takes a hit. I also took numbers off of Dulfy and the new PvE Main/END are 20-40% higher than the new PvP ones. So if PvP puts EXP around 60% damage, then EXP bolster on PvE needs to be around 40%(1500EXP) because EXP is a "global" multiplier. I feel that is pretty fair trade, but again I need to see some in game numbers, but if the number is higher than 1500EXP, then:

HOUSTON(AUSTIN) ,WE HAVE A PROBLEM!

A caveat, I'm at home with a sick infant so my numbers might be a little off, but I think the expertise value while under Bolster was set on underworld gear at 1332.
Rob Hinkle | Lead System Designer
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znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
04.16.2013 , 11:31 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post

A caveat, I'm at home with a sick infant so my numbers might be a little off, but I think the expertise value while under Bolster was set on underworld gear at 1332.
Wouldn't 1337 have been a better number ?:P
SWTOR: KotFE, Rise of the Ehh I guess I'll get used to it eventually
__________________________________________________
This is what a tentative roadmap should look like.

znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
04.16.2013 , 11:42 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by RobHinkle View Post

A caveat, I'm at home with a sick infant so my numbers might be a little off, but I think the expertise value while under Bolster was set on underworld gear at 1332.
By the way, the number you gave seem to indicate that not only you want underworld to be viable in PvP but competitive as well ? Or Am I missing something here ?

Edit: Hope he gets better!
SWTOR: KotFE, Rise of the Ehh I guess I'll get used to it eventually
__________________________________________________
This is what a tentative roadmap should look like.

ProKsnNwk's Avatar


ProKsnNwk
04.16.2013 , 11:43 AM | #69
For WZ, atm to fuly optimize the stats.
It would be best to get the PVP gear, til you hit the 2018 Expertise and then get rest of the PVE (Underworld Gear)
So you would have around 8 pieces of the PVP gear (that will fill 2018 Expertise sine the bolster give you free 1400 -1500 Expertise), and 6 pieces of PVE gear for better stats.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
04.16.2013 , 11:52 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by znihilist View Post
By the way, the number you gave seem to indicate that not only you want underworld to be viable in PvP but competitive as well ? Or Am I missing something here ?

Edit: Hope he gets better!
Their statements have so far led me to believe they want any PvE gear to be bolstered to the point where it is a only a little less competitive than partisan equivalent. Hopefully the same will apply to a full set of underworld with 1332 exp.
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