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Is the Empire really driven that far back?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Is the Empire really driven that far back?

Kampori's Avatar


Kampori
04.15.2013 , 01:08 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
Spoiler
No, we don't know. But with most writers having moved off this game, and BioWare making the move from Class - World/interactive story, I extremely (however unfortunately) doubt we will see a return to ANY class quest, let alone one particular character. Altho if any were to return, I guess he would... bah but still I don't see it happening
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zzoorrzz's Avatar


zzoorrzz
04.15.2013 , 01:12 AM | #22
I didn't finish Makeb story yet, so I'm not going to read through this thread to avoid big spoilers, but from what I know, I think it's real shame how devs treat us. Already in vanilla, I wasn't convinced by the way they explained loss of Corellia after I basically drove the Republic of the planet in Darth Decimus storyline. All this feels like it doesn't really matter what u do. They will decide what happens next and be sure it's not going to be good for Empire.

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
04.15.2013 , 02:08 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by zzoorrzz View Post
I didn't finish Makeb story yet, so I'm not going to read through this thread to avoid big spoilers, but from what I know, I think it's real shame how devs treat us. Already in vanilla, I wasn't convinced by the way they explained loss of Corellia after I basically drove the Republic of the planet in Darth Decimus storyline. All this feels like it doesn't really matter what u do. They will decide what happens next and be sure it's not going to be good for Empire.
If you did every single world arc, from Dromund Kaas to Corellia, it's not really that hard to understand how the Republic was able to drive the Empire out; Just take into consideration this...

On Hoth, you have a retired high ranking officer, who's willing to sacrifice thousands(!!!) of soldiers to reach a stalemate with the Republic, despite not being able to proove it's actually worth the bother.

On Dromund Kaas, you have a Sith Lord who prefers to waste his time - and that of the imperial military - on a pointless slave rebellion, that should be put to rest swiftly and efficiently and instead, the latter decides to prolong it. On the same planet, the cradle of the imperial might, you have Sith infighting that further weakens the order and the military, since the former answers to the latter.

On Corellia alone, according to Darth Malgus, the Empire lost a tenth(!!!) of its forces, during the time of the occupation and before they were driven out of the planet, not to mention that the Empire is not capable, for the most part, of working with the locals, without stabbing them in the back eventually.

Having all this in mind, you seriously fail to understand how the Republic was able to drive them out? I could go on but i'm trying not to go into spoiler land.
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jovianus's Avatar


jovianus
04.15.2013 , 02:28 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Kampori View Post
True, but in the end it's just semantics
Spoiler
1. How does it not fit in with canon?

2. You can't just ignore an option you don't like. And neither can Bioware. I agree that Jadus will probably never reappear, but only because it seems unlikely that we're getting class story expansions any time in the foreseeable future, and I don't think I would be the only one who would be highly annoyed if Bioware started ripping characters from class storylines and putting them into the general game and thus effectively saying, "Well if you didn't pick x/y/z choice in your storyline, too bad, your story is now nullified."

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
04.15.2013 , 02:30 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by jovianus View Post
1. How does it not fit in with canon?

2. You can't just ignore an option you don't like. And neither can Bioware. I agree that Jadus will probably never reappear, but only because it seems unlikely that we're getting class story expansions any time in the foreseeable future, and I don't think I would be the only one who would be highly annoyed if Bioware started ripping characters from class storylines and putting them into the general game and thus effectively saying, "Well if you didn't pick x/y/z choice in your storyline, too bad, your story is now nullified."
Would LOVE to know that as well.

Reminds me of some old discussions I used to have with people, when KoToR 2 and the original Mass Effect came out. For some reason, some people immediately assume that their vision is the canon one. :\
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.15.2013 , 03:42 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Kampori View Post
Coming from someone with 8 Imperial 50s, all LS V, you couldn't speak to a more loyal and patriotic Imperial :P
So I know just how badly the current situation sucks. And with the new lead writer being the writer who did the JK story (very mediocre at best) it's not looking hopeful for us.

However, it is all explained. (I have 2 republic toons I'm leveling, a JK at 43 and a JC at 30).

OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS BELOW, READ AT PERIL

Due to massive Imperial disorganisation, huge amounts of petty and stupid Sith in-fighting, the Star Cabal & Republic determination to wipe the Empire out, we don't really stand a chance. As Darth Marr says himself during the opening convo on Makeb, he says to my Warrior and my Inquisitor that if the Sith (predominantly -us- being the most powerful and/or influential sith in the empire) don't start working together in solidarity, honour and patriotism we are doomed. The Sith (majority of them) care about nothing else but power, and themselves. They are a blight on the name of sith and should be exterminated (thanks Bane).

Anyway, I ramble.

Empire wins Balmorra, a HUGE bonus for us. But short-lived. The Republic soon takes it back, gaining them and losing us some of the most powerful droid & weapon factories in galaxy. And we also lose Corellia (a small victory to begin with, seeing as it cost us 1/10 of our entire force, a ridiculously huge loss)- did you not play the Black Hole (Corellia bonus series) daily zone? It's kind of the point of it. We lost Corellia, and in a last-ditch effort before we retreat the planet, a small strike team are sent there (with you leading them) to destroy all infrastructure on Corellia, making it a barren, empty, worthless planet which is a drain on the Republic instead of a gain. (also being the founding planet OF the Republic its a moral loss). However, it's still a loss for us.

And as you said, Malgus' betrayal, the loss of another huge swathe of our Fleet (if Empire cannon really is DS, which is lame, then in FE flashpoint the DS option to kill Arkus costs us our fleet, again. Whereas LS saves it...)
And the Dread Masters, like republic getting a destroyed Corellia, its a huge morale loss for us. Dread Masters were one of most powerful weapons we had, and they just buggered off, and are attacking us. YAY!

Also, as is announced on Makeb (whether it's true or not), the Republic formally announces the Emperor's 'death'. a MASSIVE win for the Republic (symbolic win if nothing else).

The Bounty Hunter kills the Republic's Supreme Chancellor. Seems like a win for us, however all that does is bring in the new chick into power, and she is MUCH better, more efficient and war-mongering than her predecessor. All this does is make the Republic sharpen its teeth and claws.

As for Ilum, not a huge loss for Republic. By that time, Jaeric is old and worn-out.

Let's not forget (but connected to Dread Guards) EC- lots of Imperial troops defect and are killed, by us.

Then of course comes the Star Cabal (Imperial Agent story). a massive secret organisation who plays the Galaxy to their own needs. They puppeted the entire war, and play Republic and Empire for fools. They cause the disbanding of Imperial Intelligence - this is ultimately one of the biggest losses the Empire suffers. Imperial Intelligence is the number 1 advantage the Empire has over the Republic. Intelligence is an absolutely superb ministry of spies and assassins, and this is proven that once it is disbanded, the Republic SIS and army gains their biggest victories against us, and we have NO idea what is going or or how to stop it. The Empire crumbles without Intelligence.

Sure there's loads more, but I'm too eager to start playing, so I'm gonna stop writing :P

EDIT- how could I forget about Class stories? lol

Anyway: All Imperial class story final bosses (except Bounty Hunter, but explained above ^) are Sith.. it's *********** ridiculous. All Republic final bosses, are Sith. It's just SO not fair.
Sith Warrior- kills Darth Baras, genius behind the Sacking of Coruscant and the instigator of the Second Great Galactic War (the one we're in now). Ultimately, a pretty big loss... Baras being one of the cleverest Sith around.
Sith Inquisitor- kills Darth Thanaton, another loss for the Empire. Another clever and powerful Sith, traditional, honourable. The reason for his death is also pretty lame, he made a terrible arch-enemy. pointless
Imperial Agent- Act 1- Kills Darth Jadus (for fair reason, but its still an insanely powerful, clever, and logical Sith) and well, Hunter and the Star Cabal, fair enough. but still not anti-Republic. So.. for ALL of our classes, not once of us makes any big impact on the Republic.

However, the Republic is the exact opposite. All we (majority of crappy sith) care about is killing each other, all the Republic cares about is killing us.
You forgot to mention the part were we lost nine, yes nine Dark Council members in the space of a few years. I'm talking Darth Thanaton, Acharon, Jadus, Vengean, Baras, Arho, Decimus, Hadra, and Karrid. And that's not counting whatever happened to Zhorrid and Baras' sister. Oh and you may as well add Malgus and Serevin to the pile to, who were as good as - oh and why not throw Gravus and Lachris in there too. Its not fair!

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.15.2013 , 03:45 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Kampori View Post
Despite the knock-on effects it causes, it is supremely satisfying to behead the Supreme Chancellor. and the Sith don't stop kissing your arse afterwards.
Best. Moment. Ever.

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
04.15.2013 , 03:47 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
You forgot to mention the part were we lost nine, yes nine Dark Council members in the space of a few years. I'm talking Darth Thanaton, Acharon, Jadus, Vengean, Baras, Arho, Decimus, Hadra, and Karrid. And that's not counting whatever happened to Zhorrid and Baras' sister. Oh and you may as well add Malgus and Serevin to the pile to, who were as good as - oh and why not throw Gravus and Lachris in there too. Its not fair!
You forgot to mention that some, if not all, of those losses were unnecessary, since they occurred due to Sith infighting, which is something you do not see among the Jedi or Republic Military. You may see the SiS and Special Forces exchanging punches but not trying to obliterate one another systematically.
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.15.2013 , 04:06 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
You forgot to mention that some, if not all, of those losses were unnecessary, since they occurred due to Sith infighting, which is something you do not see among the Jedi or Republic Military. You may see the SiS and Special Forces exchanging punches but not trying to obliterate one another systematically.
So true. Oh and I hear that Imperial Intelligence has disbanded too, Great, just great. What next? Let me guess the Emperor's dea... oh wait.

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
04.15.2013 , 04:16 AM | #30
Well a lot of Jedi were killed too, and some really messed with. BH took out a few of them, so did the Agent. You kill both of Ashara's masters on Taris when getting her. And Taris may be a bigger win than some realize. Remember the Warrior storyline? That special chemical compound that can only be derived from Taris? The one that can make your blaster rifle as powerful as a Turbo Laser. Yeah, that would be nifty.

Also, the Republic has wasted a lot of resources and potential super-weapons. The Empire went through a couple of them because of Jedi and Trooper class stories, but still have a good one with the Silencer. Corellia is a loss for both sides. The Jedi had to commit any army of their members to take it back, and some of them turned out to be helping the Empire too. Which further leads the Republic to distrust the Jedi, since a traitor or Sith could be amongst them at any time and no one would know..

As for Balmorra, well...that was a hard win for the Republic. They had to put in a tremendous force to take it back and would've been screwed royally were it not for the four main classes coming in to do all the heavy lifting for them.

The Star Cabal was screwing both sides and was gonna try and take over the Galaxy til the Agent put'em all down. Doing that also shut down many influential leaders throughout the galaxy who were part of the Cabal and now a lot of worlds are confused and leaderless, including the Twi'leks on Tython. And let's not forget how the Republic messed with the Cathar on Belsavis. Imprisoning their prince and his followers for not joining in the "Hate the Empire!" chorus. Which I suspect leads many of the Cathar to join the Empire soon, despite the events on Taris.

The planet was a toxic dump and the Republic was pouring trillions of credits into trying to rebuild it. Not only did their efforts fail, but they ended up leaving all those Cathar and Nikto and others stuck there, fighting for their lives and homes against both the Empire and Rakghouls, only to be wiped out because the Republic said; "Don't worry! We'll protect you!...but first you need to work for us, build things, grow crops...construct weapons of mass destruction behind closed doors."

Malgus wasn't entirely wrong. The Empire needs the support of other species in order to grow strong and survive. The way he went about doing it only further damaged the Empire. And one thing though. While Imperial Intelligence may be officially disbanded, all of its members, officers and agents are being incorporated into the Imperial Military. So for now they just can't work as they normally could. And with the Agent free to move about, that can spell a lot of trouble for the Republic. The Agent knows everything about the Star Cabal. Its members, whose helped them, every deal, every place, every dirty deed and play they've made for ages, all within the Agent's hands. That information alone could cause the Republic to collapse if used properly.
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