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lol bolster

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Arutar's Avatar


Arutar
04.12.2013 , 07:19 AM | #771
Quote: Originally Posted by Heezdedjim View Post
That's what people who don't suck actually want.
How do you know? Are you the official spokesperson of the "people who don`t suck at pvp"?

What is you RWZ rating, btw?

Do you have a stream so we can learn to be a pro as you?

Burtlebe's Avatar


Burtlebe
04.12.2013 , 07:28 AM | #772
Quote: Originally Posted by Kovaos View Post
I suspected this. That's really too bad if that's the case.
Its not the case, people who are good pvpers are still winning. There is a bug but giving a guy a couple thousand more health don't necessarily make them any good. I still see the same great pvpers at the top every match. The difference is folks who only appeared to be good due to gear are getting beat and its got em mad.

Pre 2.0 if you ground out the gear it would make up for skill due to someone in lower gear not being able to hit you and you being able to destroy them. Moving forward, the gear gap (yes there will still be a gap and in the hands of a good pvper it will matter) will be smaller thus requiring skill to be a larger part of the equation.

I am handicap so I will never be a "leet" pvper but I do love it and have leveled 10 chars up thru pvp just doing the class quests when they are about to go grey then doing no pve at 40. I am usually in top 4 of a match based on the fact I play the warzones and not try to run numbers up on a board. I am happy with the changes (minus the current bug of course), it allows more people to be able to pvp without the constant rolling that occurred pre 2.0. On Shadowlands Server we have pops almost instant due to a lot more folks playing pvp now.

Just relax folks and give it some time, meanwhile adapt a little and have fun killing all the nekid folks.
Burtimus'prime Vanguard Tank
Guild Leader Army of the Republic / The Army of Darkness / The Unmentionables
The Shadowlands Server

key-largo's Avatar


key-largo
04.12.2013 , 07:59 AM | #773
Quote: Originally Posted by Arutar View Post
This.

I cannot stress it enough: I personally do not need a gear gap to pwn noobs. I am not that bad as a PVP player, who also plays RWZ (where gear gap was rarely an issue anyway, since all decent teams have full augmented WH/EWH).

I however, personally need a meaningful character progression after reaching max level as a PVP player (= gear progression). PVE players get is without question (Though here is a thought - shouldn't high end PVE raiding not be about "skill "as well and not about gear?)

If SWTOR in 2.0 has choosen to clearly put PVE first, by (a) making PVP gear even more usless in high end PVE (which they have by reducing the item level of PVP gear) and (b) making PVE gear much better in PVP (and possible equal or better to PVP gear), I simply have to decide if SWTOR is the right game for me as a PVP player with little interest in PVE.

Of course, we have to wait how PVP 2.0 will look once the Bolster works properly.

I think it is not a stretch, though, to say that the Developers have shown not much care for PVP by letting this Bolster go live - though the issues eith the Bolster where known weeks ago on the PTS.

p.s.
Imagine if things were different and ALL PVE content lvl 10-55 would be seriously bugged, including the lvl 50 PVE gear. Would the PVE players feel neglected? Sure they would. And then imagine that PVP players would then swarm the PVE forums and insult the dedicated PVE players by saying that the must be really bad if they want gear progression, because "real" PVE players do not need gear.
I agree completely.

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
04.12.2013 , 02:48 PM | #774 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hey everyone,

Our combat and PvP teams have been hard at work addressing the issues of naked Bolster and the itemization issues attached to it (like War Hero gear). Here is some very detailed information on everything we are going to be doing to address these concerns right from Alex Modny. If you want the basic info here is a quick synopsis, read on for the full debrief:

TLDR: Going into a Warzone completely naked will now be worse than wearing gear. War Hero and Elite War Hero gear is viable again.


Quote: Originally Posted by Alex Modny
Naked Bolster
  • The main change being made to Bolster is how it treats item slots with no items in them aka the naked bolster. If there is a slot without an item in it, that slot will only be bolstered a portion of what placing an appropriate item in the slot would. This will remove the naked bolster situation. Being Naked in a PvP area will now be much worse the further you go up the PvP progression.
  • In addition to these changes we fixed many underlying bugs in the Bolster system and tweaked some numbers to make Bolster give a little less stats than it does currently. We also corrected an issue where relic slots were being treated in our system as expected to give out more Main Stats than they were. This caused relic slots to be overly valued in adding to your DPS stats when mostly they add Endurance and a Proc. All of these changes should pretty much squash out Naked Bolster as being undeniably better than any set of gear. There might be cases where Naked is ever so slightly worse but that is usually a case of the equipped gear being not so great for PvP. If you see players in PvP playing Naked from now on you should expect them to be underperforming stat wise and over performing cojones wise.

Elite War Hero
  • War Hero and Elite War Hero (referred to as WH and EWH from here on out) gear is now better! It is no longer worse than Naked Bolster. The reasons why WH/EWH had less stats and were worse than old Bolster is because it is ‘old’ gear and this ‘old’ gear used a different stat budget where it got its stats from. This ‘old’ stat budget (which isn’t used in 2.0) accounts for Expertise into the budget (Partisan and Conqueror do not) meaning they were lower in Main, Secondary and Tertiary stats to account for the Expertise the items had. This will be removed and the stat budget the Expertise was taking be refactored into the Main, Secondary and Tertiary stats. The net result is WH/EWH will have no Expertise and increased stats, but Partisan will still be better than it. The ranking you will see in effectiveness is WH < EWH < Partisan < Conqueror.
  • However, we have an issue with this conversion, the Expertise crystal in the WH/EWH weapons. Because this crystal is used in Partisan and Conquer and the system is unable to edit based on condition which item the crystal in the WH and EWH weapons still have Expertise. It is recommended that you replace this Expertise crystal with PvE crystals. We apologize that we weren’t able to fully take all the Expertise off the WH/EWH and that some players will lose customization, which is very important to us and to you.
  • Older PvP Gear (Battlemaster, Champion, Centurion, Recruit, and Recruit Mk2) did not receive this free upgrade conversion. At this point in the SW:TOR item progression, these items are simply out of date with the current power level and are not recommended for use.
  • There is a very important note in regards to how the bolster system handles mixing expertise and non-expertise mods on a single item: The short answer is, you shouldn’t do it. The longer answer is, players are much better off than when they decide to make an item a PvP-focused item, they replace all of the mods inside it with expertise mods. The bolster system handles “PvP” items slightly differently than “PvE” items, and putting even a single expertise mod inside an item tells the bolster that the item is a “PvP” item. The result of this situation can be less than ideal for a player in either content channel, and certainly isn’t working as well as we intended. We continue to discuss fixes to this particular issue, but players can work around the problem by making sure they are either pure PvE items or pure PvP items. Note: This is only with mods on a per item basis, mixing different items on a full character is fine.

Gear vs. Skill
  • Pre-2.0 PvP was all about your items. Being ‘the best’ meant you had EWH with augments and no one could touch you. This situation was unfortunate because it made the PvP game too harsh on the ‘have nots’ and made the grind to EWH much more bitter because of getting your face pushed in the mud day after day. The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players. In 2.0 we don’t want to totally get rid of PvP gear progression, we still want a gear gap but we want to tone down how overpowered the top tier gear is versus the lower PvP gear so that the moment to moment gameplay is more enjoyable. We want everyone you group with to be contributors from a gear standpoint (them not responding to “inc grass 3” calls or not throwing you the Huttball when they are immobilized is something we can’t help :P). We have seen the argument of Skill vs. Gear throughout the existence of MMO PvP and we are of the opinion both are good for an RPG, falling on one side of the scale (gear has no purpose in PvP vs. gear is the only thing that matters in PvP) is not desirable. It is a balance act, sometimes it will slide too far on one side or the other and we will correct it but this methodology, the balance between skill vs. gear, will result in the most healthy PvP game and community possible for the long term.
P.S. Thanks DarthOvertone for making us laugh during this tribulation.
Our current plan is that you will see all of these changes after our scheduled maintenance on Tuesday, April 16th. Note that these changes are NOT to address the time to kill issues. We are still actively investigating that and will get back to you as soon as we have more information.

-eric

Eric Musco | Community Manager
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L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
04.12.2013 , 02:55 PM | #775
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey everyone,

Our combat and PvP teams have been hard at work addressing the issues of naked Bolster and the itemization issues attached to it (like War Hero gear). Here is some very detailed information on everything we are going to be doing to address these concerns right from Alex Modny. If you want the basic info here is a quick synopsis, read on for the full debrief:

TLDR: Going into a Warzone completely naked will now be worse than wearing gear. War Hero and Elite War Hero gear is viable again.




Our current plan is that you will see all of these changes after our scheduled maintenance on Tuesday, April 16th. Note that these changes are NOT to address the time to kill issues. We are still actively investigating that and will get back to you as soon as we have more information.

-eric

So what exactly are you changing? I mean, you guys are notorious for not updating gear if you moved one or more of the modifications on a specific piece, how exactly are you going about removing EXP from WH/EWH gear?
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

_Kayko_'s Avatar


_Kayko_
04.12.2013 , 02:57 PM | #776
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey everyone,

TLDR: Going into a Warzone completely naked will now be worse than wearing gear. War Hero and Elite War Hero gear is viable again.




Our current plan is that you will see all of these changes after our scheduled maintenance on Tuesday, April 16th.
-eric

Errr, hmm, the TLDR version says changes are right now, yet if it is actually read, it would appear the changes will be made on Tuesday during maintenance.

Does this mean I have PvP with pants on when I log on tonight?
[Jedi Covenant] ~Katsune Legacy
Kayko - 55 Kinetic Sage
Sonika - 51 Lightning Inquisitor
Kaito - 55 Balance Sage

Sweeet's Avatar


Sweeet
04.12.2013 , 03:00 PM | #777
Quote: Originally Posted by _Kayko_ View Post
Errr, hmm, the TLDR version says changes are right now, yet if it is actually read, it would appear the changes will be made on Tuesday during maintenance.

Does this mean I have PvP with pants on when I log on tonight?
You're taking the TDLR out of context... The TDLR is an overview of the synopsis, not meant to be taken literally as in right now...obviously.

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
04.12.2013 , 03:01 PM | #778
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey everyone,

Our combat and PvP teams have been hard at work addressing the issues of naked Bolster and the itemization issues attached to it (like War Hero gear). Here is some very detailed information on everything we are going to be doing to address these concerns right from Alex Modny. If you want the basic info here is a quick synopsis, read on for the full debrief:

TLDR: Going into a Warzone completely naked will now be worse than wearing gear. War Hero and Elite War Hero gear is viable again.




Our current plan is that you will see all of these changes after our scheduled maintenance on Tuesday, April 16th. Note that these changes are NOT to address the time to kill issues. We are still actively investigating that and will get back to you as soon as we have more information.

-eric

So; my BH that has sat dormant in BM gear. I should probably just craft him some armor...

Yelloweyedemon's Avatar


Yelloweyedemon
04.12.2013 , 03:06 PM | #779
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post


Quote: Originally Posted by Alex Modny

Gear vs. Skill
Pre-2.0 PvP was all about your items. Being ‘the best’ meant you had EWH with augments and no one could touch you. This situation was unfortunate because it made the PvP game too harsh on the ‘have nots’ and made the grind to EWH much more bitter because of getting your face pushed in the mud day after day. The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players. In 2.0 we don’t want to totally get rid of PvP gear progression, we still want a gear gap but we want to tone down how overpowered the top tier gear is versus the lower PvP gear so that the moment to moment gameplay is more enjoyable. We want everyone you group with to be contributors from a gear standpoint (them not responding to “inc grass 3” calls or not throwing you the Huttball when they are immobilized is something we can’t help :P). We have seen the argument of Skill vs. Gear throughout the existence of MMO PvP and we are of the opinion both are good for an RPG, falling on one side of the scale (gear has no purpose in PvP vs. gear is the only thing that matters in PvP) is not desirable. It is a balance act, sometimes it will slide too far on one side or the other and we will correct it but this methodology, the balance between skill vs. gear, will result in the most healthy PvP game and community possible for the long term.

Yes you've said that in a previous post in this thread. You still havn't answered to the question if the amount of stats and expertise people are getting from bolster is intender to work that way. (I'm always talking about lvl 55 warzones.) I see every day people in green gear or simply empty gear, having Partisan and above level stats, with ~1980-2k expertise. Is this working as intended?
You said you wanted to close the gear gap, but not elliminate it.

At the moment there is no difference between PvP and PvE gear. Heck, there's no difference even between PvP and 'empty gear" ...

Darth_Vampirius's Avatar


Darth_Vampirius
04.12.2013 , 03:07 PM | #780
Quote: Originally Posted by _Kayko_ View Post
Errr, hmm, the TLDR version says changes are right now, yet if it is actually read, it would appear the changes will be made on Tuesday during maintenance.

Does this mean I have PvP with pants on when I log on tonight?
No. You can wear whatever you want in your own house. I think it means we need clarification as to when this stuff goes live though. While these changes are not what I would call optimal if I were a lead designer, I'm not one, and I find these changes agreeable enough that I can enjoy the game again. /resub
Quote:
//We have seen the argument of Skill vs. Gear throughout the existence of MMO PvP and we are of the opinion both are good for an RPG, falling on one side of the scale (gear has no purpose in PvP vs. gear is the only thing that matters in PvP) is not desirable.//