The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 04: Shaak Ti vs. Luminara Unduli

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 04: Shaak Ti vs. Luminara Unduli

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Ventessel

04.12.2013 , 08:19 AM \| #81	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi From TFU unleashed novel, the Vader being disinterested part was the 2nd not the 1st. Also while yes Vader was gripped, that wasn't the end of the fight he could have gotten out of it, he was raising his arms. Impaling Vader? Please...Vader has survived impalments with a saber before. The generator was what ended the fight. But yes Marek won, so lets just move on already with the fight going on now. Good lord, you cling to the novelizations like a drowning man! They are merely supplements to the games and movies they accompany, no more. The novelizations can provide some insight into the thoughts of characters or actions which occurred off screen, but they do not supercede what is clearly portrayed in the visual media.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013 �People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.� ~ George Orwell

Ventessel

04.12.2013 , 08:26 AM \| #82	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling That would be making the assumption that Unduli is more powerful, or as powerful as, Marek. Which I do not accept as the case. It would seem from her fight with Ventress that her defences were far less difficult to penetrate than Marek's. Nor is there any evidence that Ti is not patient or methodical, and able to flow easily between Ataru and Makashi. She only resorted to a desperate attack (which wasn't that desperate) as a very last resort. Before that she was graceful and fluid. If Ti will be forced to make desperate attacks in this battle, then she's lost before its even begun. She simply wasn't strong enough to defeat Marek. And again, why would Ti tire and Unduli not? Ti can easily switch to Makashi which focuses on economy of movement and is one of the least tiring of the forms, and whose to say, given the not so impenetrable nature of Unduli's defense, that Ti could not break through with a burst of Ataru. Your making the assumption that the fight will drag on, and considering her brief duel with Ventress (which ended in her sound defeat) and Ti's power and regard as one the greatest duelists of her age, and her ability to unleash powerful Force based attacks, I don't think it will. Also note that Unduli was not blinded, one of her eyes was damaged and she quickly recovered. I think you're drawing a conclusion based on the fact that Shaak Ti lost to Marek and Unduli lost to Ventress. That's kind of irrational, since Ventress was able to drive Unduli back but not kill or wound her, while Marek slaughtered Shaak Ti. Such comparisons are both irrelevant tough to assess accurately, so it's best to leave them alone. The fact is, both Shaak Ti and Unduli are regarded as skilled and masterful duelists, but Unduli has the edge in defensiveness due to her evasion and flexibility, while Shaak Ti relies far more heavily on acrobatics for both defense and offense. So it stands to reason that Shaak Ti's fighting style will tire her out more rapidly, while Unduli's defensive edge will allow her to hold out long enough for Shaak Ti to start getting sloppy. I think they're close enough in Force Power that neither will be able to gain a decisive edge over the other in any sort of a hurry.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013 �People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.� ~ George Orwell

Wolfninjajedi

04.12.2013 , 08:28 AM \| #83	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel Good lord, you cling to the novelizations like a drowning man! They are merely supplements to the games and movies they accompany, no more. The novelizations can provide some insight into the thoughts of characters or actions which occurred off screen, but they do not supercede what is clearly portrayed in the visual media. Yes they do for games that is, game mechanics aren't canon. MOVING ON...
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!" ―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling

04.12.2013 , 08:33 AM \| #84	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel I think you're drawing a conclusion based on the fact that Shaak Ti lost to Marek and Unduli lost to Ventress. That's kind of irrational, since Ventress was able to drive Unduli back but not kill or wound her, while Marek slaughtered Shaak Ti. Such comparisons are both irrelevant tough to assess accurately, so it's best to leave them alone. The fact is, both Shaak Ti and Unduli are regarded as skilled and masterful duelists, but Unduli has the edge in defensiveness due to her evasion and flexibility, while Shaak Ti relies far more heavily on acrobatics for both defense and offense. So it stands to reason that Shaak Ti's fighting style will tire her out more rapidly, while Unduli's defensive edge will allow her to hold out long enough for Shaak Ti to start getting sloppy. I think they're close enough in Force Power that neither will be able to gain a decisive edge over the other in any sort of a hurry. It wasn't me who brought Marek into this. But either way I'm merely making the inference that Unduli's defenses aren't all that impenetrable as Ventress managed to penetrate them, albeit with a Force powered kick, but a gap is a gap either way. So in such a sense, Ti's aggressive attacks would be enough to power through Unduli's defenses before she tires out. And if they don't, Ti is more than capable of switching to a less demanding form. After all, she didn't seem to tire in her drawn out duel with Marek. I'd also say Ti has a decisive edge over Unduli in terms of Force powers, and Ti is more able to perform Force based attacks, while Unduli seems to rely on them solely to bolster her lightsaber combat. Basically Ti's attack is better than Unduli's defense, and proven to be so.
"No game of dejarik can be won without pawns... and this may prove to be a very long game." ~ Kreia Darth Traya: Waiting in the Dark& Part Two: A Fragile Alliance

Wolfninjajedi

04.12.2013 , 08:35 AM \| #85	Quote
Don't look at me Beni, Marcelo brought it all up. But enough about this now, am leaving the thread don't reply.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!" ―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling

04.12.2013 , 08:36 AM \| #86	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel Good lord, you cling to the novelizations like a drowning man! They are merely supplements to the games and movies they accompany, no more. The novelizations can provide some insight into the thoughts of characters or actions which occurred off screen, but they do not supercede what is clearly portrayed in the visual media. Not that it matters, what Wolf doesn't seem to see if that the game and the book are portraying events in the same way. Vader's complete and utter defeat at the hands of Marek, and that Marek surpassed Vader in all respects. This debate was useful in one respect, I found a statement comparing Vader and Shaak Ti as the greatest duelists of their age - cited from TFU novel itself.
"No game of dejarik can be won without pawns... and this may prove to be a very long game." ~ Kreia Darth Traya: Waiting in the Dark& Part Two: A Fragile Alliance

Wolfninjajedi

04.12.2013 , 08:38 AM \| #87	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling Not that it matters, what Wolf doesn't seem to see if that the game and the book are portraying events in the same way. Vader's complete and utter defeat at the hands of Marek, and that Marek surpassed Vader in all respects. This debate was useful in one respect, I found a statement comparing Vader and Shaak Ti as the greatest duelists of their age - cited from TFU novel itself. No I understand, but how the events happen are different.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!" ―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling

04.12.2013 , 08:41 AM \| #88	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi No I understand, but how the events happen are different. Pretty much the same really, Vader gets owned them pummeled with some heavy/explosive object. In the novel it was an energy field generator, in the game it was a bunch of pipes. But yeah, moving on...
"No game of dejarik can be won without pawns... and this may prove to be a very long game." ~ Kreia Darth Traya: Waiting in the Dark& Part Two: A Fragile Alliance

Wolfninjajedi

04.12.2013 , 08:42 AM \| #89	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling Pretty much the same really, Vader gets owned them pummeled with some heavy/explosive object. In the novel it was an energy field generator, in the game it was a bunch of pipes. But yeah, moving on... Yes I know, but anyway ya moving on.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!" ―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Ventessel

04.12.2013 , 08:56 AM \| #90	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi Don't look at me Beni, Marcelo brought it all up. But enough about this now, am leaving the thread don't reply. Stand and fight, coward! Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling Not that it matters, what Wolf doesn't seem to see if that the game and the book are portraying events in the same way. Vader's complete and utter defeat at the hands of Marek, and that Marek surpassed Vader in all respects. This debate was useful in one respect, I found a statement comparing Vader and Shaak Ti as the greatest duelists of their age - cited from TFU novel itself. How perfectly dreadful. Apparently everyone and their sister is now the "greatest duelist of their age". I thought Mace and Yoda were the greatest of their age, with Anakin and Obi-Wan a step behind. Or perhaps, in context the quote means, "After Vader and the 501st killed every other duelist, Shaak Ti was the greatest duelist of her age, by virtue of also being one of the only duelists of her age." But yes about the Vader vs. Marek fight. It was obviously a painful smack down for Vader, no matter what way you cut it. Vader was tough and a very skilled fighter, but he was really starting to get past his prime at that point and Marek was young, powerful, and extremely proficient. George Lucas has repeatedly said that Obi-Wan and Darth Vader were significantly weakened by the time of the films and that the duel in ANH was "a cripple fighting an old man".
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013 �People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.� ~ George Orwell

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