The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 04: Shaak Ti vs. Luminara Unduli

Marek used his natural surroundings coupled with his impressive Force powers to his advantage, he didn't slip or falter, and he defeated Vader. Marek > Vader.

But either way, aren't the cutscenes supposedly canon? If so then the battle would be interpreted as follows:

However, the sheer weight of Vader's heavy armor and prostheses left him unable to physically compete with the agile Marek. Furthermore, the numerous cybernetic additions to his body considerably diminished his potential in the Force. Ultimately, the apprentice had surpassed the master—the irony being that this was the Sith way, yet Marek was never "officially" a Sith apprentice. With the Force on his side, Marek crushed Vader under a pile of heavy pipes and unleashed a furry of swift attacks that brought Vader to his knees. After pummeling away a few times at the last of Vader's defenses, Marek viciously sliced off the upper part of Vader's mask, then used the Force to brutally fling his former master through a glass pane and into the throne room. Darth Vader, damaged and no longer capable of defending himself, had finally been defeated. ~ Wookieepedia.

It would seem that Vader was simply overwhelmed. Which makes sense as Marek is more powerful in most, if not all, respects. Obviously it was a difficult fight, but he prevailed nonetheless.

Despite himself, he was as surprised as his former Master clearly was. For a moment, the only sounds were the twin humming of the lightsabers and the wheezing of Darth Vader's respirator. Then the Dark Lord laughed. It was an awful sound, empty of humor and full of mockery. In it, the apprentice heard a decade and a half of torture and abuse. Anger flared. He lunged forward. His former Master barely blocked the blow. A second scored a deep wound across his black-clad shoulder. A third stabbed deep into his thigh.Darth Vader reeled backward, servos whining in his injured limbs and lightsaber shaking. The apprentice gripped his lightsaber in both hands and held himself back. Anger was familiar and powerful; it also clouded his eyes when he most needed to see clearly. Vader prepared for combat again. His power over the apprentice, however,was gone. His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis. The Force wrenched him into the air, as he had once lifted the apprentice's father, and a barrage of missiles struck at him with increasing strength. He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued until, with a crash, the apprentice ripped the energy field generator in the center of the room right out of the floor and hurled it at his former Master. The generator exploded with greater force than he had expected, throwing him and everyone else to the floor. The transparisteel dome shattered. Debris rained everywhere. The sound of the explosion rang in his ears for an unnaturally long time afterward. He was the first to his feet, striding across the rubble to where Darth Vader lay face-forward, gravely wounded and stripped of his armor in places. Flesh and machinery showed through the gaps. Finally, some real blood was flowing. The apprentice stood over him with his lightsaber upraised and ready to strike. His former Master was trying to stand, feebly willing his massive bulk to move as it was supposed to. Servomotors whined and strained. When he rolled over, the apprentice froze. Darth Vader's helmet had been ripped away by the blast. Beneath was the face of the man who had stolen and enslaved him, a pathetic, hairless thing covered in wrinkles and old scar tissue. Only the eyes showed the slightest signs of life: blue and full of pain, they stared up at him with undisguised weariness.

So he didn't simply just overpower Vader, he used an environmental advantage yes but that was his only saving grace.

Wait, what? I'm confused how you drew that interpretation from this. Marek owned Vader. I'm not sure if Vader had been weakened already by that point but he may as well have not had a lightsaber. Just like it said on Wookieepedia, Marek unleashed a flurry of attacks, scoring deep wounds in his shoulder and thigh. At this point Vader seems barely able to stand, let alone kill Marek. Then Marek rips his lightsaber from his grip (at this point it would seem the battle is pretty much over) and proceeds to pummel him with the Force. Lifting him off the floor in a telekinetic grip! That move alone basically means: its over. Forget the energy field generator, forget environmental advantages, if Marek had wanted to he could have implaled Vader there are then, and Vader would be helpless to resist. There is no way Vader could have won at that point. No way.

Let me stress the importance of Marek lifting him up in a Force grip. This basically means Vader has lost, he is took weak to keep his Force resistance up and Marek can easily break through those shields and do whatever he likes. At this point Marek is free to toss him about like a ragdoll. Rarely, if ever, have I seen a battle were the lifted defeats the lifter, that is basically a cornerstone for a KO. I would assume that before that happened, Marek pretty much defeated Vader in combat, otherwise he wouldn't have been that weak.

Wow, it would seem that when people quote the book saying 'Vader was disinterested' they were really clutching at straws. Does no one else interpret this in the same way?

Why would you doubt that Shaak Ti would get desperate? When she couldn't overwhelm Marek through Ataru and Makashi assaults, she resorted the suicidal tactics that allowed him to kill her. Marek was a patient, methodical fighter who flowed easily between using Shien and Soresu for defense and Juyo for attack.

Unduli is a tenacious fighter, who managed to fight Ventress to a draw despite being blinded. That duel went back and forth, leading me to believe that Unduli will rise to the occasion and match Shaak Ti strike for strike. Remember, Unduli is no slouch at saber combat, and is highly regarded by her fellow Jedi. If the fight drags on, Shaak Ti will begin to tire and start getting sloppy. Unduli's superb flexibility and Soresu will be more than enough to counter Shaak Ti's offense long enough to frustrate Shaak Ti.

From TFU unleashed novel, the Vader being disinterested part was the 2nd not the 1st. Also while yes Vader was gripped, that wasn't the end of the fight he could have gotten out of it, he was raising his arms. Impaling Vader? Please...Vader has survived impalments with a saber before. The generator was what ended the fight.

From TFU unleashed novel, the Vader being disinterested part was the 2nd not the 1st. Also while yes Vader was gripped, that wasn't the end of the fight he could have gotten out of it, he was raising his arms. Impaling Vader? Please...Vader has survived impalments with a saber before. The generator was what ended the fight.

That's the kind of thing I don't understand. If you accepts EU as part of SW history, than you can't think that the guys from the movies will always win. We saw the duel, we read the duel, I can't understand how someone, afetr seeing all this, can give any excuse that Marek didn't defeat Vader.

And he defeated Palpatine, going back there. Basically you said that they didn't engage in combat, just because they didn't clash their sabers. Marek was able to break down Palpatine with the Force, you think that's a samll thing?

And the cutscenes are canon.

Raising his arms in a feeble attempt to block his attacks, which certainly wasn't doing anything. If he hadn't had the generator, he could have just flung Vader about the room, flung him out of the window, flung some heavy objects at him, struck him with Force lightning, or dismembered and beheaded him. Here's a demonstration.

One thing's for sure, Vader was in no position to fight back or kill Marek, he couldn't even keep hold of his lightsaber. He couldn't deflect any of Marek's saber attacks. He was beaten.

At least some one agrees with me. However on your last point, I wouldn't say it shows that Starkiller is more powerful, just powerful enough to catch him unawares. Which as you say is no mean feat. However that fight was not over, and he could have easily unleashed a blast of Force lightning. For example in the battle with Sidious and Windu, Windu knocked him down, but the battle was far from over.

But ultimately the fact that Marek was killed when attempting to catch his lightning, and Sidious survived, proves Sidious was more powerful. Although we should not downplay Marek's abilities.

Yes he could have, but the fact is he didn't. Right he was in no position to fight at that moment, I ain't arguing with you that Vader wasn't beaten just that he was beaten in a certain way.

Also ya I know the cutscenes are canon...but I don't see what that has to do with anything.

Now can we get back on track with this thread?