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lol bolster

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Princz's Avatar


Princz
04.12.2013 , 04:14 AM | #761
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
lowbie pvp is not pvp, it;s leveling ground, go 55 for real games.
Bolster is there too
Princz - Sage healer of the Republic
Fantastico - sneaky assasin of the Empire
"idiots are invincible"

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
04.12.2013 , 04:17 AM | #762
which is just below pvp augmented gear. like it's supposed to be.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

skotish's Avatar


skotish
04.12.2013 , 04:48 AM | #763
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
which is just below pvp augmented gear. like it's supposed to be.
Sorry pve gear rules in the 55 bracket
Quote: Originally Posted by Frankenseuss View Post
Palpetine: "... Not from a TOR dev."
TOFN Farquar'hoffe/Val'korsin

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
04.12.2013 , 04:50 AM | #764
Quote: Originally Posted by skotish View Post
Sorry pve gear rules in the 55 bracket
then it's bugged and needs to be fixed. doesnt make arguments of removing it valid ones.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

chaosmadness's Avatar


chaosmadness
04.12.2013 , 05:05 AM | #765
Quote: Originally Posted by bodhisattvasw View Post
Actually, the highest skilled pvp MMOs of old, didn't rely on gear, it was skill.. Meridian59 everyone basically had the same gear, with at best slight variations. PVP was insane, intense, and amazing. They didn't have levels, rather "HP", you started at 10hp, and went up to 100hp. But a 50hp guy with touch of flame could drop a 100hp dude in battle if he had skill. The 50hp guy had the same gear in general, it was all about skill and class speccing.

MANY (if not most) of the best old school MMOs functioned in this way.. DAOC (early on) for example, virtually everyone was in the same sets of armor/weapons by max level. So it really came down to skill, and DAOC early on had what most feel was the best PVP ever. Then the 'gear' infatuation game along, and literally ruined it. The gear infatuation needs to die a quick and painful death, it's usefulness has been outlived by a huge margin. The number of games ruined by excessive gear discrepancies is quite long.

Warhammer was destroyed by Gear-Flation. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to catch up, and anyone coming into the game has no hope in ever having a fair fight. The end result is, people quit, the game dies. Same with Rift, nobody in their right mind would grind out to the higher ranked gear because it is too painful to experience the lower ranked face stop. As a result Rift has failed, the game is dying, and they've removed all focus from PVP and closed down the PVP servers, and removed daily quests, and basically shelved PVP.. It's too broken, and as a result they lost their PVP players. Gear-Grinding doesn't work in PVP, this has been well established. The primary reason is it creates imbalances that can't be overcome in a competitive game.

F2P model has done wonders to bring back fairness in all games that have the model. Guildwars 2 did wonders for showing you don't need insane gear-flation, or crazy gear progressionto keep people pvping, and playing. Star Trek Online had PVP issues because some folks had Jem'Hadar ships and destroyed people. The fix? Give everyone an equivalent ship to Jem'hadar for christmas, and end the gear gap! Right now you can enter STO, and within a week or two 'fully compete' in hardcore PVP against anyone.. That's how it should be.

SWTOR is moving in the right direction, and Hickman is a genius with this latest patch. My guess a lot of hardcore kiddies are butt-hurt now that they don't have legions of recruit geared softies to take down.. My advice is - live with it or move on, it's not going anywhere.. If you can't compete on a 100% even playing field, find a few game.
Well, im not lv 55 atm and im trying understand the new pvp system and why are ppl complaining about that.
I see ppl complaining but in another way i see ppl saying that is good.
I found this argument very solid.

Arutar's Avatar


Arutar
04.12.2013 , 05:23 AM | #766
Quote: Originally Posted by Ragglemuffin View Post
I honestly felt for the first time that pvp has now become worthless for the dedicated pvper. Yes ok bolster allows players to have an "even" chance but it strips away a PvPers reward system. Look at it this way, in pvp, you get bolster to pretty much elite gear level, why isn't there then a bolster in place for PvPers to get stat inflation when hitting hard mode or nightmare mode operations? It's seems unfair that both communities are not hit with the same brush.

I do agree with giving non PvPers a chance in 55 pvp but the bolster needs to be tweaked. [...]

In conclusion, pvp no longer has the same attraction as it did prior to 2.0. There is no longer a sense of achievement with regards to grinding gear and there is no longer a purpose for the dedicated pvper
This.

I cannot stress it enough: I personally do not need a gear gap to pwn noobs. I am not that bad as a PVP player, who also plays RWZ (where gear gap was rarely an issue anyway, since all decent teams have full augmented WH/EWH).

I however, personally need a meaningful character progression after reaching max level as a PVP player (= gear progression). PVE players get is without question (Though here is a thought - shouldn't high end PVE raiding not be about "skill "as well and not about gear?)

If SWTOR in 2.0 has choosen to clearly put PVE first, by (a) making PVP gear even more usless in high end PVE (which they have by reducing the item level of PVP gear) and (b) making PVE gear much better in PVP (and possible equal or better to PVP gear), I simply have to decide if SWTOR is the right game for me as a PVP player with little interest in PVE.

Of course, we have to wait how PVP 2.0 will look once the Bolster works properly.

I think it is not a stretch, though, to say that the Developers have shown not much care for PVP by letting this Bolster go live - though the issues eith the Bolster where known weeks ago on the PTS.

p.s.
Imagine if things were different and ALL PVE content lvl 10-55 would be seriously bugged, including the lvl 50 PVE gear. Would the PVE players feel neglected? Sure they would. And then imagine that PVP players would then swarm the PVE forums and insult the dedicated PVE players by saying that the must be really bad if they want gear progression, because "real" PVE players do not need gear.

Manotao's Avatar


Manotao
04.12.2013 , 05:26 AM | #767
there is nothing to say against some kind of bolster system. If it works! The current bolster obviously does not and that's the whole point.
Why should a dedicated PVPer play PVP now when there is nothing to gain?

You say that full PVP dressed PVPers ruled the warzones, especialy in the Level 40-49 in the <50 bracket?
Sure they did, and rightfully so!
Well, I think if somebody puts in the hours, days and weeks and maybe months to play an awful lot of PVP to get his PVP gear, this player can be called a dedicated PVPer who deserves to be there, ruling the warzone and not get bashed by a level 11 or the like...
These players worked their way up the levels, gaining skills (playerwise, not gamewise) and gear that has both been made useless now with 2.0 because of all these whining guys who refused to learn their classes and put in the time it needs to become competetive.

Glocko's Avatar


Glocko
04.12.2013 , 05:53 AM | #768
Everyone is missing a huge problem. Now that there is bolster there is no need to maintain any gear below 55. A very large population (perhaps 25-35%) are primarily merchant based and a little PVP/PVE. The bolster system has destroyed the entire economy. The bolster has rewarded F2Pers and people with little or no interest in sticking around in the first place. It penalizes people who have invested time and passion in to the game. Did some people have advantages before bolster... Yea - Well organized guilds with crafters, hard core players with 12 Char slots all 50s and crafters, etc. In any game people who invest the most effort are rewarded with better gear, etc. Everyone can't win a freakin trophy....... That 25-35% percent population is the long term subscribers who won't stick around and now your dependent on F2Pers.... Good luck with that business strategy..... It's the economy stupid.

Heezdedjim's Avatar


Heezdedjim
04.12.2013 , 06:58 AM | #769
Quote: Originally Posted by Manotao View Post
Why should a dedicated PVPer play PVP now when there is nothing to gain?
Manhunter.

Also, put in a true PvP leaderboard. That's what people who don't suck actually want.

Kovaos's Avatar


Kovaos
04.12.2013 , 07:02 AM | #770
Quote: Originally Posted by skotish View Post
Sorry pve gear rules in the 55 bracket
I suspected this. That's really too bad if that's the case.
"my friend said he got a pack of level 50 armor and all i got was level 47 pants."