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PvP Hybrid Build ... "The Pill Bunker" - Bane of the Smash Monkey

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Gunslinger / Sniper
PvP Hybrid Build ... "The Pill Bunker" - Bane of the Smash Monkey

Trushott's Avatar


Trushott
04.06.2013 , 06:07 PM | #1
If you know what a Pill Bunker is you already understand the premise of the build. I searched a lot to make sure no one else had advocated this build in the past and was unable to find any. If I missed it I would like to give credit though if its out there ... Albeit I came to this build on my own in my search to do want I wanted my GS to be able to accomplish.

PvE as well
I DO NOT respec for PvE as I find this build a lot of fun in PvE as well ... Unless your HM ops group makes you change ... But I would try to find one that let's you roll with it since all content can be cleared in this spec

What this build is not: a top WZ damage dealer so if not being top damage will hurt your ego then this is not a build for you !

What this build is: a defensive monster that will be the bane of all smash monkeys in addition to a scary surprise for anyone deciding to one on one you thinking your just one of the many bad slingers out there. They will immediately discover there is something different about this slinger as the panic sets in when they realize they bit off more than they could chew.


a TANKY DEFENSIVE build that still has sneaky burst albeit nothing like some other builds .... BUT .... The TANKY defensive posture allows you to hang in there much longer thus IMHO putting out still respectable damage to groups and single targets as well as being a great WZ node guard until help arrives - paired with operative healer is almost god mode node protection

Worst Warzone for this build is huttball but the rest are great if your a defensive minded player...

Note: this is not a build for beginners or anyone not able to play your 15 plus hotkeys like a concert pianist ... Just a fact ... Many will find this play style extremely tedious and you will rarely be at the top of any Warzone but you WILL help you team to win more than the guy at the top of the chart. One more time - if you do not know how to use 15 plus hotkeys effectively do not attempt as you will completely and utterly fail

The Pill Bunker: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#70...ZbIMroRbRrZh.2
11/27/3

Again it takes a certain player to use this build but IMHO it is by far the hardest to kill gunslinger you can build... And is a destroyer of smash monkeys


Note: please when using this build give credit to its source
Lan'obi Loomis - sage <> Doc Loomis - Scoundrel
Cody Loomis - Gunslinger
How the heck does one fold fitted sheets?

Trushott's Avatar


Trushott
04.06.2013 , 06:15 PM | #2
Reserved to post the order to take things in as you level when I get time in order to study the 2.0 changes and come with a build that does the same thing if possible in 2.0
Lan'obi Loomis - sage <> Doc Loomis - Scoundrel
Cody Loomis - Gunslinger
How the heck does one fold fitted sheets?

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
04.07.2013 , 01:29 AM | #3
This build confuses me.

Smash monkeys rely on force attacks, not melee attacks. So what's the point of diversion? Smash crits so it never misses and its a force attack anyway. The 31 point dot that is used to build up the stacks for smash is all force attacks. You're putting 4 points into 4% endurance buff and a 6% heal on cool head - the two of those together add up to like 500 hp and you're losing 4 spec points for them - plus 2 points in cover defense when they use force attacks... And in return you're giving up a very high DPS perma AOE you can drop on yourself to damage them while they attack you.

If you want a smash monkey killing build:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bsrrb0sRGRZbcZG.2

or

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#70...cZGbbkrrhdhR.2

or

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bcMZrI0boRrRrsZh.2

Trushott's Avatar


Trushott
04.07.2013 , 02:28 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
This build confuses me.

Smash monkeys rely on force attacks, not melee attacks. So what's the point of diversion? Smash crits so it never misses and its a force attack anyway. The 31 point dot that is used to build up the stacks for smash is all force attacks. You're putting 4 points into 4% endurance buff and a 6% heal on cool head - the two of those together add up to like 500 hp and you're losing 4 spec points for them - plus 2 points in cover defense when they use force attacks... And in return you're giving up a very high DPS perma AOE you can drop on yourself to damage them while they attack you.
...
Ive never found the 31 point cap skill in sab ( IG ) to be super effective in PvP particulary Rated ...

Everyone just simply moves out of it for a few seconds then continues on .. no one just stands in the fire .. the only halfway effective thing to be done with it in PvP is against other snipers/GS sine they may be in cover but thats really it so its just not a needed capstone IMHO

as far as the things you point out that smash monkets ignore in this build other classes do not ignore them and they are very effective in surviving and staying on the field of battle longer

Also, if your letting a smash monkey get to melee range on you anyway your doing it wrong /shrug - since sniper / slinger is the rock/paper/scissor class to counter smash monkeys by game design

but it all still depends on what your playestyle with your sniper / GS is .... if your more offensive hunter minded this is not a build for you ... if you enjoy defensive stands and being the best GS/sniper node protector you can build .. this build is for you
Lan'obi Loomis - sage <> Doc Loomis - Scoundrel
Cody Loomis - Gunslinger
How the heck does one fold fitted sheets?

ezrafetch's Avatar


ezrafetch
04.08.2013 , 11:27 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Trushott View Post
Ive never found the 31 point cap skill in sab ( IG ) to be super effective in PvP particulary Rated ...
>.>

Sab/Engi's IG/PP is one of the biggest reasons why the tree has been so effective in Rated. IG/PP locks down doors, nodes for 18s, with 100% uptime. That alone justifies Sab/Engi in 3/5 game modes (VS, CW, NC). You can attach a 2s stun with it, which gives GS/Snipz an extra interrupt for dealing with healers, making sure opposing OS/XS don't go off, with tons of utilitarian usage. It's not the most damaging ability in the arsenal of the GS/Snipz, but I don't think it was designed with that in mind, so it' not supposed to be, because of the sheer utility/objective potential that the ability has.

And when it comes your tree, Cover Screen is absolutely useless vs. Smash, given that their burst sequence is entirely Force. Diversion is along the same lines: Diversion is meant to counter classes with heavy reliance on melee/ranged attacks other, such as GS/Snipz, Carnage/Combat Mara/Sent (it also has a sneaky use in getting healer Ops/Scoundrels out of cover, opening them up for leaps from your JKs/SWs so they can use their lolsmash sequences. You also give up three of the most important talents in that tree: Blazing Speed, SUB, and Dealer's Discount. Blazing Speed actually does quite a bit of damage, and not taking it hampers your burst. SUB lowers your cooldowns a lot, which helps your AoE and your overall utility since you can use Flash Bang a lot more to stall or to even set up your XS. Dealer's Discount just saves you a great deal of Energy, I'm not sure why anyone would ever pass on that.

Currently, for the next, well, day or so, since 2.0 is out this week, these are the two recommended builds for PvP:
33/5/3 Sharpshooter for Huttball, Ancient Hypergates. move the Holed Up points into Independent Anarchy for PvE.
7/31/3 Saboteur for VS, NC, CW. Move Sapping Charge into Hot Pursuit for PvE.
I'm of the opinion that DF just isn't as good in PvP given the propensity of Cleanses flying about, and the fact that it requires ramp-up time that you just won't get very often in PvP. It's fine for PvE, though DF/Sab hybrids tend to parse higher.
Parrobus Dinastzhen
Old Republic Dads, Shadowlands

Trushott's Avatar


Trushott
04.08.2013 , 12:45 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by ezrafetch View Post
>.>

Sab/Engi's IG/PP is one of the biggest reasons why the tree has been so effective in Rated. IG/PP locks down doors, nodes for 18s, with 100% uptime. That alone justifies Sab/Engi in 3/5 game modes (VS, CW, NC). You can attach a 2s stun with it, which gives GS/Snipz an extra interrupt for dealing with healers, making sure opposing OS/XS don't go off, with tons of utilitarian usage. It's not the most damaging ability in the arsenal of the GS/Snipz, but I don't think it was designed with that in mind, so it' not supposed to be, because of the sheer utility/objective potential that the ability has.

And when it comes your tree, Cover Screen is absolutely useless vs. Smash, given that their burst sequence is entirely Force. Diversion is along the same lines: Diversion is meant to counter classes with heavy reliance on melee/ranged attacks other, such as GS/Snipz, Carnage/Combat Mara/Sent (it also has a sneaky use in getting healer Ops/Scoundrels out of cover, opening them up for leaps from your JKs/SWs so they can use their lolsmash sequences. You also give up three of the most important talents in that tree: Blazing Speed, SUB, and Dealer's Discount. Blazing Speed actually does quite a bit of damage, and not taking it hampers your burst. SUB lowers your cooldowns a lot, which helps your AoE and your overall utility since you can use Flash Bang a lot more to stall or to even set up your XS. Dealer's Discount just saves you a great deal of Energy, I'm not sure why anyone would ever pass on that.

Currently, for the next, well, day or so, since 2.0 is out this week, these are the two recommended builds for PvP:
33/5/3 Sharpshooter for Huttball, Ancient Hypergates. move the Holed Up points into Independent Anarchy for PvE.
7/31/3 Saboteur for VS, NC, CW. Move Sapping Charge into Hot Pursuit for PvE.
I'm of the opinion that DF just isn't as good in PvP given the propensity of Cleanses flying about, and the fact that it requires ramp-up time that you just won't get very often in PvP. It's fine for PvE, though DF/Sab hybrids tend to parse higher.
well it all comes down to playstyle i guess ... but in this build i can one v one all classes except operative/scoundrel (unless i have all my cooldowns up then maybe win a few sometimes but they are the counter to sniper / gs )... and it is the most effective for node protecting i have used including the two you listed ...

this build will never put you at the top of the chart s but it will help your team to win more than the other two builds .. defense verses offensive mindset i guess is our paradigm difference on this ...

yhe talents taken are fare more effective defensively than what offensive output you lose against several other classes youll have knocking at your door ...

imho all sniper/GS builds of any count are smash monkey destroyers becuase its the rock paper scissor counter class to smash monkeys ... if your having a hard time with smash monleys in any sniper / GS build your just doing it wrong plain and simple
Lan'obi Loomis - sage <> Doc Loomis - Scoundrel
Cody Loomis - Gunslinger
How the heck does one fold fitted sheets?

AngelFluttershy's Avatar


AngelFluttershy
04.08.2013 , 12:58 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by ezrafetch View Post
>.>

Sab/Engi's IG/PP is one of the biggest reasons why the tree has been so effective in Rated. IG/PP locks down doors, nodes for 18s, with 100% uptime. That alone justifies Sab/Engi in 3/5 game modes (VS, CW, NC). You can attach a 2s stun with it, which gives GS/Snipz an extra interrupt for dealing with healers, making sure opposing OS/XS don't go off, with tons of utilitarian usage. It's not the most damaging ability in the arsenal of the GS/Snipz, but I don't think it was designed with that in mind, so it' not supposed to be, because of the sheer utility/objective potential that the ability has.

And when it comes your tree, Cover Screen is absolutely useless vs. Smash, given that their burst sequence is entirely Force. Diversion is along the same lines: Diversion is meant to counter classes with heavy reliance on melee/ranged attacks other, such as GS/Snipz, Carnage/Combat Mara/Sent (it also has a sneaky use in getting healer Ops/Scoundrels out of cover, opening them up for leaps from your JKs/SWs so they can use their lolsmash sequences. You also give up three of the most important talents in that tree: Blazing Speed, SUB, and Dealer's Discount. Blazing Speed actually does quite a bit of damage, and not taking it hampers your burst. SUB lowers your cooldowns a lot, which helps your AoE and your overall utility since you can use Flash Bang a lot more to stall or to even set up your XS. Dealer's Discount just saves you a great deal of Energy, I'm not sure why anyone would ever pass on that.

Currently, for the next, well, day or so, since 2.0 is out this week, these are the two recommended builds for PvP:
33/5/3 Sharpshooter for Huttball, Ancient Hypergates. move the Holed Up points into Independent Anarchy for PvE.
7/31/3 Saboteur for VS, NC, CW. Move Sapping Charge into Hot Pursuit for PvE.
I'm of the opinion that DF just isn't as good in PvP given the propensity of Cleanses flying about, and the fact that it requires ramp-up time that you just won't get very often in PvP. It's fine for PvE, though DF/Sab hybrids tend to parse higher.
I was going to say something, but Ezra covered everything. Don't forget OP, that IG is part of your burst too as the first three ticks occur faster and deal more damage than the subsequent ticks, with that 2sec stun from Shock Charge it means you're getting insane burst.

For PvP, I run the following build: 7/31/3

My Saboteur is all about survivability and burst. I find Seize the Moment not worth the two points as PvP is too situational to rely on it for that free ability, and my encounters never last long enough for Bravado to make a difference. Cover Screen only lasts 6 seconds for two points and only really helps against a few classes (Mercenary, Marksman Sniper mostly); that's not worth a 6% damage increase on Speed Shot (Sabslinger's #1 ability). If you're really uncomfortable about missing Bravado, you can always sacrifice Underworld Hardships.

EDIT: Okay, I need to respond to this.

Quote: Originally Posted by Trushott
this build will never put you at the top of the chart s but it will help your team to win more than the other two builds .. defense verses offensive mindset i guess is our paradigm difference on this ...
If you're saying your build is superior to the other specs because of a greater defense capability, I'd strongly disagree.

You sacrifice a lot of burst damage and utility to obtain a reduced CD on Leg Shot and Diversion, this means it will take you significantly longer to kill a target. While a strong defense is what makes the Saboteur tree great it still possesses strong burst because it can only last so long. As for the build countering Rage spec Warriors, you're saying that any GS/Sniper shouldn't even let them come near you so what is the purpose of a strong defense? How do you plan to counter a spec with strong defensive CDs without proper burst and utility? Not to mention you're sacrificing a stun and slow by not taking IG, you don't take an extra knockback with Percussive Shot, and you'll be 15 seconds slower to use another Flash Grenade than you could be. The only thing your build has over a Sharpshooter is the slow on Shock Charge. Holed Up and Lay Low would prove more useful than Riot Screen seeing how Rage is all about burst. If you're going to say this build is about stopping a Warrior's gap closing, remember that Marauders have Force Camo to get close and then Obliterate in Rage if they get knocked back.

While I can see how this build could work on a one vs. one against most opponents, a great Marauder would still have you on the ropes. Also, why would you run Ops with this? Diversion and Leg Shot are completely useless, Cover Screen hardly helps, and Underworld Hardships is just preventing you from getting energy savers and better damage dealers. While I'm sure you can get by with the spec, you'll just end up being a carry in the higher level content.