New PVP patch notes are completely bogus

I will trust you on this one, and I'm grateful to the flying spaghetti monster that I managed to avoid such games along the years...

You realize it doesn't make sense, right? If the men behind the changes were all PvE-exclusive players, what was their business trying to change PvP? Anf if "PvPers" were so vociferously against Expertise, does it mean thoses campaigning against 2.0 Bolster are actually PvErs? My point is, you can't unilateraly put people into one artificial group or another. But anyway, it's bickering.

Even though my own activity is irrelevant for the question at hand, I actually do both PvP and PvE on a PvP server because I still have hopes that one miraculous day PvP gets some real treatment, and that I wanna be ready when it happens. As for what benefits me, you understand that not only I have all the gear and tools I need, but I would moreover welcome the end of that separated gear silliness : no more Expertise, no more nerfed numbers. To put it briefly, what this game needs is a lot more variables to play with and twink (aka more choice gearwise), extended skill trees (but not more points to spend), more occasions for factions to clash eachother, and more PvP occurences with real stakes.

So we agree PvP state is one of a minigame. What I might have said earlier is that this state doesn't satisfy me. By all means and intent, I hope Bolster is a first step in the right direction.

Me too the bolster mechanic on the pts using the pve gear never put me anywhere near the pvp sets expertise

Having PvP being trivialized with no rewards vs my time spent (vs a Pve'er and his time spent) means that a PvEer's content should be trivialized as well. Raids should be about story progression right.....not gear progression? So why does gear matter in PvE?

IF I turned fresh 50 and was bolstered to where I could run raids in my 49 greens, i probably would. Just to see the story content, and the content that has been developed for swtor, but if this was the case...Raiders would be up in arms...but why should they be shouldnt it be in thier intesrest for other players to experience story content....instead of getting the next "ARMAGEDDON"..or "BETRAYER OF HUMANITY". Ya right..................

When 2.0 hits, i can not go into a raid with my PvP gear and do reasonably well, or just a tad below spec a full blown raider.....but a PvE'er can with his gear go into PvP, and do reasonably well.. How does that work out...hmmm.

^^^^^^^^^ x10000

Bolster if done right will be a vast improvement over the system we have since launch, which is the same idiotic setup they have in Warhammer Online.

Bolster if done right will be a vast improvement over the system we have since launch, which is the same idiotic setup they have in Warhammer Online.

What's this all about? I hate all those n00bs that come in 50 WZ's in 14k as much as you do, but the bolster system is just to bring the low lvl's on par with the higher ones. Also any serious pvp'er will just lvl up from 50 to 55 fast, and play 55 pvp.

Anthraxal, I think you and I mostly understand each other with the exception of one point, albeit not very consequential but since you asked:

The short answer is: it was an "unintended consequence." Basically, the players that complained (again, not *all* but a significant enough amount of them that spurred BW to action) that were PvE'ing didn't like that other players were showing up with their PvP gear (or gear that had been modded with armoring/barrels/crystals, mods, & enhancements originally stripped out of PvP gear) and being almost as effective in the Flash Points and Operations as those that had the equivalent tier of PvE gear. Those that were complaining, largely didn't PvP at all, or they would have/could have done the same thing themselves: improved their stats (min/maxing) with mods taken from gear they had obtained in PvP, or temporarily completed a tier set by using a pvp item (maybe a relic, or pants, whatever) until they got the PvE version to properly complete the set.

Given your inclination you'd be right to wonder, as most of us who like PvP did, "what do they care?" And I agree that it may make no sense from your and my point of view. After all, the stronger a team's members are geared, the greater likelihood of success in the Operation and getting the PvE gear, rewards and achievements everyone seeks. And yes, they could have just as easily done the same thing, and some did, that crossed over and did both kinds of content... but here is the distinction between pure PvE'ers and those that PvP at all and the foundation for the contentious and clear differences between them. There are some people that HATE PvP with a passion. The fact that a player *could* take a piece of armor that they'd obtained in PvP (or use the mods from it) to make their gear better and therefore themselves more effective along the way of completing their PvE sets was tantamount to "forcing" them to PvP in order to be competitive, in their minds... an idea so totally abhorent to them that they absolutely howled about it. And, no, I'm not making this up. It was said at the time, and there are still people here and in other MMOs that will voice the same view today: If you make them feel forced to PvP (and again, not literally, but make something atainable by taking a PvP route) they they will absolutely lose their minds about it and hell hath no fury like a pure PvE'er scorned, damn the unintended consequences. They didn't even care about the indirect benefit to them through having a strong team. I think it's a perverse, self-defeating kind of hubris and selfishness, but that's more for a psychoanalyst to determine.

*Bear in mind, there are the pure PvP'ers who could have cared less about doing Ops or getting those rewards or gear etc., but they were nonetheless just as swept up in the changes that were inflicted on PvP as everybody else was. I'm sure you saw Ifolad's post above, anecdotally recounting the reaction of just such players.

This was all a result of BioWare's response to the outcry of the vociferous number of pure PvE'ers to make it unviable to use PvP gear in Ops; to be effective in Ops you have to have PvE gear, end of story. BW's approach to this was to more than double down on Expertise, thereby greatening the gap between PvE and PvP gear.

Again, I'm not necessarily against the 2.0 changes from a PvP perspective. However, they are still determined to keep PvP gear (and by extension, those that mainly acquired their gear through PvP) out of PvE but have made the opposite viable. I tend to agree with you on your point... why not have no distinctions in kinds of gear and thereby allow everyone to experience the content they wish? Hard core PvP'ers don't care about Expertise. Sure, just like PvE'ers, they would like their work to result in better looking and better performing armor & weapons to show for their efforts, but why not eliminate Expertise altogether and make equivalent PvE & PvP tiers of gear... well, equal, stat wise? If BioWare doesn't, that's where I have the problem: then they are effectively punishing and excluding those that primarily PvP from other content, and only them. That's called discrimination.

I say, keep bolster for levellers, but dump expertise altogether and put tiers of PvE & PvP gear on exactly equal footing. Problem solved... except, propose such a thing in General and listen as the howling begins all over again....

The only way that one can contribute, is to use the PvP consumables, and go into the wz's with a stim. These coupled with gear is what makes PvP players from having <100k damage per wz to >300k damage per wz. But bad players don't want to use consumables in wz's so we'll always be stuck with those bads.

Geez get over it. I seriously don't believe any of that crap about learning your class when playing someone with better gear. They don't beat your *** because they have better gear. They beat your *** because they're better than you.